Remember kids.....smile

>>30748
I see althought bottling things are bad sometimes
its difficult to tell others about it. In fact I had to have a little of courage to tell you what happened.

>>30750
You didn't have to. It didn't change my opinion of you in the least.

But I can't say that for other people.

>>30751
thank you for hearing my story~

>>30752
I didn't have a choice. I thought you would just stop mentioning it after what I said.

I guess I could have ignored the post but that's boring, especially on this slow board.

Valve, you crazy, Grand prize winner will get EVERY STEAM GAME EVER? Too bad your servers can't handle the traffic

>>30754
I always see DLC for that train stuff.

So um... Anyone wanna play MapleStory with Chen and Cirno and myself?
As MegucaKyouko or MegucaMadoka.
We will form a guild called the MegucaSquad.
Mercedes is super fun to play.

>>30756
MapleStory? Seriously? I think I played that like six years ago.

I just realized that my kouhai types exactly like Belphe-chan.

>>30758
I never liked the sound of that kouhai business. It's been a long standing thing, now. I hope no sins of the flesh have been committed.

>>30757
me too




but I still play it orz

>>30760
But you must have been around five years old that long ago.

>>30759

Of course not, a kouhai is merely a kouhai ne.

>>30762
You must not be as much of as loose cannon as everyone believes. That must come naturally after experiencing many familial relationships with girls below your age.

Still. Make sure you preserve your purity.

>>30763

Ahaha, how else can I become a wizard~

>>30750
I like to think we are all close enough friends that we do not judge for foolish secrets kept and unveiled.

>>30764
Wizards should be able to turn themselves into witches, right?

>>30765

Sou da naaa

>>30766

Of course, wizards are the strongest.

>>30765
thanks lili

>>30764
I'll catch up with you eventually. And then, when the day comes that we both as wizards have a magic duel, I can only hope you can keep up, Kami-sama.

Seems like /jp/ is playing MapleStory too.

Screw MMOs though.

>>30769
is it possible to repress that?!

>>30769

ふふふ, a thousand years too early!

>>30772
Weren't you playing RO?

>maple
wat

>>30773

I redownloaded but busy with end of semester ne.

>>30775
How does having a life feel, anyway?

>>30770
I unfortunately have the same feeling towards most MMOs lately, next WoW expansion is just another cash grab (Pandas, yay?), most other MMOs aren't worth mentioning (or going F2P), SWTOR only has voices on everything on most other MMOs.

>>30778
Is it really the same feeling though?

I have grown to dislike MMOs because they stretch out content as much as possible, using grinding, high bars of entry and the nature of the multiplayer community in general as tools. What results is a sickening mess of drama that is taken far too seriously because of far too much investment, leaving no time for more important pursuits. Like playing other video games.

>>30779
By same feeling, I refer to you saying screw MMOs. Some MMOs don't stretch out content or do too much grinding though.

>Sticky tape
>does 29 damage twice in a row

>Toy knife
>does 19 damage

>Toothbrush
>does 62 damage

What kind of titanium toothbrush...?!

>>30780
I know that, I just meant that my reasons for thinking that probably differ from yours, as you point out issues with the ones out at the moment, and you're at least looking to give an upcoming MMO a try.

>Some MMOs don't stretch out content or do too much grinding though.
To me, it seems like they're all the same in this as a matter of course, since one game can only last so long without stretching it. They may have less grinding and stretching compared to other MMOs, but I think when you compare time spent in an MMO to an equal amount of time spent multiple games that don't try to be endless, the latter always delivers a better level of enjoyment over time, and has a greater standard of variety.

Because MMOs (nearly all MMOs, anyway) are MMORPGs, there's a sense of progression that needs to remain relevant even for the veterans, so the bar of entry, as I said, is set high. They're not like other multiplayer games that people play for ridiculous amounts of time, because for them the only investment required is whatever it takes to pick up the skills necessary to succeed. Your own skills, not he skills of a character that will require a set amount of time regardless. The RTS genre is like that. Something like TF2 would be an example if it wasn't for the crazy hat thing they pulled.

So while someone might pull of thousands of hours in an RTS, aside from brushing up on their skills, it's not something they need to continue to invest time in. They can leave and come back again at any point, and there's not much rust to shake off. For an MMO, for progression, which is integral to an RPG, to remain relevant, the worth of your achievements needs to decay over time as more content is introduced, or as other players reach greater heights through sheer time. In your typical single player game, 200 hours is massive. In an MMO, try 200 days. And those 200 days can become meaningless with decay, forcing you to jump the bar again in a process that is repetitive and generally not very entertaining beyond manipulative carrot-on-a-stick progression.

Stop haet on MMOs.

>>30776

Sux ne people won't leave me alone ever.

>>30783

...Wow, seems I missed a lot last night.

Especially the Umineko discussion.

All I'm going to say is that I don't think Yasu or Shkanontrice was the original solution, but more of a "backup solution" that apparently needed to be used after all.

>>30786
notto disu shitto agen

>>30787
...Not my fault all the fun happens while I'm asleep ;_;

>>30786
I know how that feels ;_;

>>30788
I'm referring to the backup answer part you nerdoctor.

>>30756
What server you guys playing on?

>>30785

>>30793

>>30791
Nova.
IM me at [email protected] first

>>30794

>>30797
>>30794

>>30797
You lost at SSBM, you don't deserve to be defended.

>>30799

It was Brawl, and I had to use an inferior wiimote! The precision is painfully low you know!

>>30802
It was Brawl? Even worse, bahahaha! You should have just picked MK and waggled your way to victory ne.

>>30803

I'd never use MK, there's no point to winning with an I-win button. I naturally chose Zelda as usual.

>>30790
...Oh. Either way it's not too hard to explain again. For those who want to know.

EP1-4 was just BT and Ryu going back and forth. Shkanon was left out in the open as a backup, perhaps maybe BT knew he was going to die?

Either way BT was the one making the mysteries, not Ryu. BT is BeaTrice, Ryu is Battler. Notice both main characters have "BT" in their name. Even in Chiru, BernkasTel and LamBdadelTa have "BT" in their names.

Anyway, EP5 happens, BT is in a coma or something...? At the end Beatrice dies because this is around the time in real life BT died.

Featherine, Ryu's current avatar, doesn't show up until EP6, after BT died. That's because there was no need for Featherine before this, but because plans changed Ryu had to insert himself into the story.

During EP5 there wasn't much discussion regarding Shannon and Kanon, but suddenly EP6 was almost entirely about it. The point of EP6 was to show Ryu-Battler's crappy writing, that he can't write a mystery, and trying to resurrect BT's good writing, which he eventually does through the use of Shkanon.

EP7 is Beatrice's (BT's) funeral. Claire represents BT's ghost. Most of EP7's truth isn't actually stated in red. Why? Because it was all created by us, the theory makers. Ryu didn't know BT's answer so he just used ours and made it look like it was BT's. Hence why Bern conducts the funeral, as she is a representation of "mystery" and "miracles" and "low probability", etc. The EP7 teaparty can't even be considered the truth solely because Ryu just doesn't know what it is.

EP8 only confirms this by making us "goats" controlled by Bernkastel. Tearing apart and eating away the gameboard between Ryu and BT. What was once theirs is now a product of our theory-making minds. The Witch Hunters are clearly us, wanting the truth exposed, and Featherine ultimately decides not to do so, as Ryukishi does as well. Eva's diary might even be some secret diary BT kept, but Ryu decided not to open it due to the struggle depicted in the latter half of EP8.

The first half of the EP8 teaparty, with Featherine, is a direct talk between Ryu and us. Featherine says she's done writing, but still has "a little bit left". That's the ura tea party. She even refers to her "old friend, who is now gone". This clearly refers to BT.

And the final indication is the ending picture. "This game is dedicated to my beloved witch, Beatrice." ...Dedicated to BT.


This is why the theme of the series shifted so drastically halfway through. The hints for Shkanon were indeed there, and could have been denied at any time in the future, so it's not impossible it was planned to be denied at some point. This also explains why so many subplots such as the "other" Battler were either never fully explained or played such an insignificant role later on. They WOULD have played a larger role, but didn't due to unfortunate circumstances outside R07's control. So you can't really put all the blame on him.

>>30805

>>30804
The new Melty demo is out, you should play with me~

>>30808

I actually downloaded that already but I can't get my controller to work with it right for some reason.

>>30809
Fix it, fix it, fix it!

>>30806
No offense, but it just sounds like to me you guys were just grasping too hard at something that probably isn't even there or true to begin with

>Even in Chiru, BernkasTel and LamBdadelTa have "BT" in their names.

Got me up until here. Reaching way too hard.

>>30811
It is half-truth. I believe Beatrice is definitely BT in some way, but the notion that the truth was lost is wrong.

Ryu07 wrote mysteries for BT's sake, this he has explicitly stated before. The idea that BT was the true mystery writer is one that originally stems from frustration over grandiose expectations of Umineko not meeting the delivery. Battler realizes the whole truth at the end of episode 5, this theory entirely ignores that.

The goats tearing up Battler and Beatrice's golden land represents the readers invading what was originally BT and Ryu07's fun mystery world. I can't deny that. Ryu07 was lost for motivation to write after BT death, and the fanbase was harsh to him. The idea that Shkanon is left as a backup theory is beyond flimsy. BT knew he would die long in advance and therefore gave Ryu07, his best friend, a false answer so when he died he could use it? It can only come across as inconsiderate.

Ironically, I find this theory to be a gross form of the goats that trample and disrespect the gameboard.

>>30812
>Even in Chiru, BernkasteL and LamBdadeLta have "BL" in their names.

I'm theory crafting!

>>30813
Well, those are just some possibilities.

I did say "maybe this, maybe that". I don't think we can be sure of exactly how much influence BT had over the writing, but clearly the gameboards stopped being the focus after he passed away. The story shifted to the people trying to "take over" the gameboard that was once between them, that is, us.

Battler realizing the truth would, according to this theory, mean Battler realized Shkanon is what BT left behind as a "backup". A perfect loophole that can get around all reds no matter what, unless the idea of Shkanon is specifically denied.

Given that EP8 is entirely meta, reading Featherine's lines as Ryu's lines give some more insight into this theory. If you interpret the characters as metaphors for real life versions, it tells a completely different story than what it appears to be on the surface, which I find really interesting.

Maybe we are reading into it "too much", but Battler always said "don't stop thinking". This theory doesn't make what Umineko currently is any less of a story, but it is still a tragedy, considering it got a poor anime adaptation, the latter half of it was poorly received by the fanbase, and Ryu's purpose for writing it was entirely lost halfway through. All the theory does is give an indication of what Umineko might have been, and why Ryu said he wants to rewrite it in the future, many years from now.

It's like I'm really posting in seacats.

>>30815
I think the main reason he'd want to rewrite it many years from now, is so people forget about this and he can (maybe) charge them for it again

>>30816
Where's your psion?

omg desperate for more people to play with fffff

I don't see it that way. Darn why would Ryukishi and all of his team lie that way? BT was the programmer not the writter, if not then what was Ryukishi? The handsome weaaboo of the team? I don't think so.
The way I see it is a if Ryukishi got so severaly depressed than he decided to don't release the truth at all, since his friend BT could not see it. But I don't think all the Yasu related stuff was a "lol lazy plot" as most of the people say, it was well prepared and it's strongly hinted in all the answer arcs.
By the way, I need to check the date but, I am almost sure than BT died some time after ep5 release, it was just not translated in english.
About ep6, yes Ryukishi got so depressed than he maybe even though in dropping the series, I think he even mocked of himself with the Battler hint buying a gameboard script.
About the rest, yes I believe the same as you, it was even told in the end as you say.

>>30815
>I did say "maybe this, maybe that". I don't think we can be sure of exactly how much influence BT had over the writing, but clearly the gameboards stopped being the focus after he passed away.
I think you need to reevaluate the progression within the question arcs themselves. The fantasy steadily increases, the gameboards get less coverage. The game was opened with a challenge referencing mystery and fantasy. Episode 1 and 2 are the only complete gameboards, and the latter is liberally sprinkled with illusion. Episode 3 takes this further. By episode 4, the gameboard is a joke revolving around a couple of phone calls. Every episode, more characters were introduced that apparently didn't really exist, obscuring the real mystery. Beatrice actually "dies" in some form at the end of episode 4, by laying down and allowing Battler to beat her. She's practically a corpse after that.

Why would Ryu07 and BT, two people using pseudonyms, two people we know so little about that you can wildly speculate on BT's death and the lead-up to it in any which way you like, play this little game of hide the author? What would be the goal of that? Why does it matter to us whether it was BT or Ryu07? Who are they, really? Is the guy who appears in pictures as Ryu07 even Ryu07, who we understand to be the writer?

>Battler realizing the truth would, according to this theory, mean Battler realized Shkanon is what BT left behind as a "backup". A perfect loophole that can get around all reds no matter what, unless the idea of Shkanon is specifically denied.
Again, doesn't it seem inconsiderate for BT to leave this false answer for Ryu07 because he was going to die? If they make the games for eachother, why not cut to the chase? If they make it for the audience, why not preserve the real truth? BT being aware of his imminent death and choosing to act on it by installing this fail-safe answer that everyone is bound to hate is completely nonsensical. Consider, too, that at the end of episode 6, Beatrice calls Shkanontrice a wonderful answer that people need love to see. Really? That for a failsafe?

Or is that Ryu07's wishful thinking, as BT is already dead at this point? You can see how this theory is able to disregard large chunks of evidence from latter episodes because the person writing them can't be trusted to know his stuff, except when it comes to knitpicked meta commentaries, heavily interpreted. It's a way of saying that something is wrong, even though the story says it is right. This seems more like the ultimate loophole to me. The literal death of the author.

>Given that EP8 is entirely meta, reading Featherine's lines as Ryu's lines give some more insight into this theory. If you interpret the characters as metaphors for real life versions, it tells a completely different story than what it appears to be on the surface, which I find really interesting.
And you can take this too far. Obviously, even if they are metaphors, they are not the things they represent entirely. BT was presumably not a witch, nor a person who acted out different personalities to the point of resembling DID. Here, you get to pick and choose which parts have meta-significance and which do not. Since Beatrice is such a complex character with so many iterations, the results of an interpretation will be infinite in number.

Before you said that everything in Umineko has a hidden meaning. How do you know that? And even if it were true, how do you know your thoughts on those hidden meanings are correct? Or even that there's a correct interpretation, though a mystery generally isn't about open reading, this is far from a traditional mystery.

The mystery is Beatrice. From the beginning, she was presented as the greatest enigma. She is more important than the individual mystery of the gameboards, or who exactly killed who in the massacre. Episode 1's ura tea party concerns itself with her exclusively. It talks about her heart, and how her heart relates to winning the game. So obviously, the mystery we're being presented with is related to her. If your theory were right, there's an alternate explanation for Beatrice, even more intricate than the false answer Ryu07 had to use. That stretches the imagination.

You talk about "don't stop thinking," but at the same time you call attention to the fact that the red hasn't been explicitly used to confirm the truth, such as in the episode 7 tea party. Why would it be? Hasn't the philosophy in Umineko always been for the answer to be hinted at, but never told? Even the earliest of interviews talk about this concept, and the way in which the answer will ultimately be presented - saying that it's something red and round, rather than an apple.

>>30820
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2728041#post2728041

It was July 10th. EP5 was released in August. If you consider the time between December when EP4 was released and Augsut when EP5 was released as the time that EP5 actually takes place, Beatrice dying during the ura tea party fits in quite well, being so close to the ending.

As for what Ryu did, he probably did the actual writing, while BT just challenged him with mysteries.

>>30822

Indeed, there is that theme of entropy, where there's less and less mystery and more and more fantasy. I have to admit I like that concept, but how do we know it was there from the start? We can only tell by what was shown before BT died, and that's EP1-4, which were all fairly consistent mysteries. Again, this theme as well as Shkanon hadn't solidified until after BT's death, which is the premise of this theory.

Who knows why they played "hide the author". Maybe the same reason why Ikuko and Tohya played that same game too.

There's no point to playing a mystery game where you "cut to the chase" and get the answers over with. If there is indeed a diary where BT left all the answers, then that would answer your question nicely. Shkanon was a clear "backup" Ryu could use, but BT really did leave behind the answers in a much more subtle way.

Also, I'm not labeling gameboard-Beato as BT. It's Meta-Beatrice. Only the METAworld contains METAphors. Sure, metaphors can probably be interpreted in an infinite amount of ways, but there's only a single way they were MEANT to be interpreted, a single truth. What makes me think I (and Meta) have found that?

Some metaphors are more obvious than others, like the goats being Internet theorists. Other obvious ones are the seven stakes being deadly sins and Knox and Will being rulesets of the mystery genre. Those are pretty easy to tell. But the deeper meanings behind the three witches of Certainty, Miracles, and Endless are all hidden at first. Ryu must have done his homework to integrate so much philosophy and psychology into the personifications of characters in his novel. This is getting pretty off track, though.

My point is that there's some underlying message behind it all that Ryu has been consistent in throughout all 8 episodes. Red has always been certainty, blue has always been probability, gold has always been accepted truth. Why do Rudolf and Kyrie wear blue? Because it's probable that they are the true culprits.

So Ryu's shown he likes to play with metaphors, and even more so breaking the fourth wall over and over. What's to say there isn't some hidden meaning that involves the breakdown of that fourth wall as well?

>>30823
I see, so he did die a bit after this, anyways it doesn't exactly say how did he die but he use the term smooth, this could mean he didn't suffer a lot.
But more importantly, it include those lines:
He was not only my very best friend, but also my very first reader.

"I wrote both Higurashi and Umineko because I wanted to surprise him.
BT left behind more than his heart and feelings.
The debug system he frequently remodeled is now an essential part of the way we complete these complicated productions in such a short period of time.
We'll use that system in the upcoming crunch time...no, we'll probably keep on using it forever.

BT, thanks so much.
If I hadn't met you, I wouldn't be who I am today.

So, if I stop writing, it will be as though I never met you...
So, I'll grit my teeth and write.
As I remember what you taught me."

Because of this single text I cannot trust your theory, it simply doesn't look right. Yes it it use the expression "taught me", but it sounds a lot more like a life lesson than a writting lesson.
I think you guys are forcing too much this into "Ryukishi is the perfect writter he thinks in everything" but that's probably not the case, Occam razor.
The way I see it take in consideration Ryu feelings and the way he have showed us to write without any secret conspiration behind of it. And to me, it make more sense. Also:
>culprits because blue
Alright guys, I derped.

>Discussing Umineko on /seacats/

>STILL in denial that Shkannontrice is the real answer
Oh for goodness's sake. I hated it too but I'm not THAT delusional.

>>30825
Hahahaha, weird don't you think?
>>30826
The only delusional here is Kinjo, probably~ What I believe it was hidden are the culprits (and yes, it's well hinted that Beatrice is at least not the only culprit)

>>30823
>We can only tell by what was shown before BT died, and that's EP1-4, which were all fairly consistent mysteries.
They are only consistent in that they become less and less like mysteries. Episode five only follows this theme.

>Again, this theme as well as Shkanon hadn't solidified until after BT's death, which is the premise of this theory.
I could provide you with a wealth of evidence of Shkanon and Shkanontrice from episodes 1-4 alone, I have done so many times before. There was too much foreshadowing. It had solidified. Of course, you say that amount of foreshadowing is only a backup plan, but I could pull the same trick to hand-wave any evidence.

>Who knows why they played "hide the author". Maybe the same reason why Ikuko and Tohya played that same game too.
I believe that relates to the nature of Tohya. It would have been harder to forestall what was one of the final revelations, Battler's survival and his life after the tragedy. Simply put, it was necessary for the sake of the story. BT and Ryu07 could have no such reasons.

>but there's only a single way they were MEANT to be interpreted, a single truth
In a mystery it should be. But not all writing is intended to be so narrow, and aren't you the one arguing that Umineko turned into fantasy rather than mystery because of the mystery author was lost?

>Why do Rudolf and Kyrie wear blue? Because it's probable that they are the true culprits.
Why is Battler's hair red? Because he is certainly the culprit.

>So Ryu's shown he likes to play with metaphors, and even more so breaking the fourth wall over and over. What's to say there isn't some hidden meaning that involves the breakdown of that fourth wall as well?
I'm not saying there isn't. However, a hidden meaning being the author of the story writes blindly, because he is as ignorant of the answer as his audience? Not only does it undermine Ryu07 as the author, it paints Ryu07 and BT both as dishonest people who from the beginning planned out what was bound to be a trainwreck. How can there be an honest mystery when the person supposed to be conveying hints knows nothing? What could possibility be the logistics of a situation where the only person who holds the secrets is not only does not write about them, he has to hide them from the person who will?

There's a more probable explanation for all the lose little ends (I call them red herrings, myself) that occurs to me here - they only came about because the person writing had no idea what he was doing.

>>30825

ikr

I think my brain melted a bit from reading just one of Kinjo's posts.

>>30829
Why was I able to understand that?

Streamspeak makes even less sense than the gibberish I share with my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

>>30827
Well I meant more Kinjo and Meta's "theory." In any case, I'm not gonna second-guess the whole R07/BT thing because I don't think there's anywhere near enough evidence to support anything going on there, in the actual stories themselves.

And, hm. How can I say this in a way that isn't contradictory? I don't think we should be using events that occurred outside the bounds of the narrative (in this case, R07's personal life) to second-guess at hidden stories within the story. Now, of course, you often must reference events that happen outside the bounds of a story to get the full effect of the story, particularly in stories that are partially social commentaries, like the antisemitism in Renaissance England serving as a backdrop for The Merchant of Venice. Still, I don't believe the answer for Umineko's mystery is hidden in the relationship between R07 and BT. If anything, the hinting towards Shkannontrice in the mystery arc is very profound, and I do think it was pretty obviously, in retrospect, intended to be the answer all along. I sure as heck don't like it, but I can't deny it either.

>>30832
Personally I think the the fact that Umineko is supposed to be dedicated to BT, but also to Beatrice, is enough evidence that there are supposed to be parallels between the two. I just don't think they stretch very far.

>>30832
Well I do think that BT dead did affect Umineko, it's just than my theory is different from him.

>>30834

>>30831

It can't be helped, as the times change so does the flow of language.

>>30834
>he still trusts R07

>>30835
Oh you.
>>30837
Yes, is only natural to trust who you love,
Don't you think~?

>>30838
I have no love for R07.

>>30837
I at least trust him to know the answers to the questions he poses.

Accusing the gamemaster of writing without an answer in mind is the ultimate violation of trust.

>>30833
>>30834
Well, of course BT's death affected R07, so it must have affected his writing. I do not believe, however, that it had any effect on the "real answer" to the mystery. The story that was intended to be told was, evidence suggests, planned out from the start. The idea of a "backup answer" seems rather flimsy to me, and borne without any actual evidence beyond mere speculation. It seems to me that thinking that the answer changed is just wishful thinking due to dissatisfaction with Shkannontrice.

>>30839
You are just tsun for him.

>>30840
>Accusing the gamemaster of writing without an answer in mind is the ultimate violation of trust.
I'd agree with that much, at least.

>>30842
I'm not sure if you should be making light of the fact that the manner in which episode 8 was presented did alienate a lot of his audience. And I don't think they're just "tsun" for him.

>>30840
He sure did.
Violated the crap out of that game~

>>30842
That word again...!

>>30841
>I do not believe, however, that it had any effect on the "real answer" to the mystery.
Of course, neither do I. The answer should be set from the beginning, and I believe it was.

tl;dr

I think Rin brings up a good point about using information outside the story to affect the inside of the story.

It's like how Battler explains in EP8 how using information outside the cat-box can affect the contents of the inside.

anon, even if you try and deny BT the role of "writer", the key factor is this. When Beatrice died, BT died. Beatrice played the role of writer, the storyteller. So that's the same role BT played. You don't even need to doubt the answer shown to use to think there was another writer. Whether it's Shkanon or not doesn't matter, EP7 could have told us Gohda was the culprit and you could still come to the conclusion that BT wrote the original mystery.

Even the fact that there are two people posing as a single author, Ikuko and Tohya, could be a "hint" for the readers to gather to come to this conclusion. Ikuko is Featherine, and Featherine is Ryu. Tohya actually knew what happened that day, but for some reason can't tell anyone about it. Tohya is BT.

Of course you'll probably just say it's all interpretation that can mean anything, so it's all useless. But just as there are consistent clues throughout the series for Shkanon, there are also clues for this theory, aren't there? In that sense, people who deny Shkanon...and people who deny ANY theory are just the same. It's just a matter of whether or not you're willing to accept them as "clues" or not. A reader might be able to see clues for other culprit theories, but in the end that wasn't the answer. It's a matter of determining which clues to accept and which clues to reject. So it is picking and choosing in the end.

Of course, Occam's Razor tends to cut less probable theories to pieces, but that doesn't mean they aren't true.

>>30848
The "clues" for your theory however all presuppose the existence of real-world parallels, because this is a theory of how Umineko was written, not a theory actually pertaining to its universe. The clues for shkanontrice do not require that presupposition. I don't see how there's ever a clue that shkanontrice is a backup answer, either. You've only offered the point that it was never confirmed in red. If Ryu07 is true to his word, it should not have been.

However, I agree with some of what you said. If I recall, Rin called Occam's razor on Shkanontrice once, and I pointed out that in a game where one player tries to trick the other with distractions that are more obvious, red herrings, it's hardly a useful principle.

>>30848
I'm pretty sure she was saying NOT to do that.

By the way, you said in the spoilered part in your other post that you think Ryu07 was the writer, while BT handled the mystery. I told you how ridiculous I thought that was.

But are you saying now that BT was the original author and Ryu07 took over? That's the more typical incarnation of this theory anyway.

>>30849
Well, I'll agree with the point that Occam's Razor is of limited use in a mystery. The answer to a mystery is usually obvious (and simple) in hindsight, but rarely at the time one is trying to solve the mystery. That's the joy derived in solving the mystery, the "ah-ha" moment at the end where you put it all together.

Of course, I still hesitate to call Umineko a mystery at this point. Even if it was originally presented as such, I still think it degenerated into little more than a farce in the second half.

>>30844
>>30845
I think I am, maybe I am too easy going? I don't mind some harsh words from time to time. Actually I think those "parodying" scenes are what helped to to understand what I think it's Ryu message: "sometimes not knowing something can make you happier".
>>30848
Yes, since this is a catbox all of the theories can be the truth at the same time, don't you think it's wonderful in it's own way? Anyways even if there is some circunstional evidence for your theory I cannot accept it, because it breaks all what have know about the 07th expansion, and make Ryukishi into a terrible lier. So even if I cannot deny it I cannot accept it.

>>30852
I didn't like how he kept introducing like Knox and stuff to prove it was a mystery, just to say it wasn't.

Kind of got shafted there.

>>30852
In your eyes I think it's less of a farce than it is to Kinjo.

Which is funny, because Kinjo is probably the one who trusts and loves Ryu07 as author the most here. Yet he's suggesting a theory that to me, undermines the everything that trust can be built on.

>>30851
Oh, I see how that might have been confusing.

"Writer" in my last post was just in the sense of "Game Master". I tend to think of EP2 when I think of this theory. Working backwards, Ryu did indeed end up typing up the script we read as EP2. He typed up the conversations between Meta-Battler and Meta-Beatrice as well.

However, the actual conversations themselves were generated by discussions between BT and Ryu. Think about it like my fangame's teaparties. I didn't "write" any of the dialogue, it came directly from all of you. I just typed it into the story. That's what Ryu would be doing, whereas BT would come up with the "gameboard" and the mysteries to go along with it.

In that sense a better word for BT's role was probably storyteller, and Ryu a scribe. So together they were indeed a single "author".

>>30856
I thought that might be it. But how can this possibly explain everything that occurs outside dialog? In your games, you know the answer and you write everything, selecting quotations from us where appropriate. And furthermore, even if the roles were reversed, the audience already knows the answer before the tea party is released.

Not to mention Battler's incompetence over the first two episodes. Can you really expect Ryu07 to have acted like that?

Umineko is a love story deal w/ it.

>>30856
Using your own information against you:

"I wrote both Higurashi and Umineko because I wanted to surprise him.

During the several months that passed since that day.
I forgot the joy of writing.

However, I know better than anyone else that if I stop writing because of him, he would be the most sad."

>>30856
Really, I'm not even criticizing Shkanontrice here, so it's not like I'm out to punish Ryu for "making that the answer".

On the contrary I'm sympathetic to Ryu because of the tragedy that happened during the writing of Umineko, something which started out as a fun game and ended as a huge hit to his reputation.

>>30857
Outside dialog? I mention EP2 because there was a severe lack of meta-elements that early in the series. If we compare it to EP7 or EP8, where meta-elements are everywhere (like the goats) you can see where he drew his inspiration from outside of dialog.

And who knows. After all, take a look at Battler's character in EP6. He was pretty depressed and acting all grimdark, doing his best to bring back Beatrice. Isn't that how Ryu would feel about BT?

>>30859
That's difficult to answer. And is probably the most convincing evidence to counter this theory.

I don't think I have a suitable counter for it, at least not yet.

>>30855*

not >>30856

>>30858
Umineko is the crap version of Evangelion.

>>30859
Obviously, he wanted to surprise him by showing him he could reach the truth of his mystery.

When he passed away, he forgot this joy, as he was no longer able to prove anything to BT. He received in accordance with BT's will an an envelope (one-winged eagle stationery, of course), which in Ryu07's mind no doubt housed the answer. But he never once broke that wax seal. That would violate the trust they shared. Instead, he tried to reach the answer by himself, just as Battler stumbled through episode 5 without BTrice as a guide.

It was a meaningless process, and he wondered what good realizing the truth could even do him now that it was too late (similar to Battler's realization when he reaches the "truth").

Shkanontrice that was actually his last theory proposed to BT by Ryu07 on his deathbed. BT denied it, bragging that it was one of his most cleverly crafted traps. He passed away soon after, and it was left to Ryu07 to complete this series without the truth.

Ryu07 treasured his final theory - even though it was wrong. The complexity of the trap that BT laid showed his love for Ryu07, through the staggering effort he had put into this mystery crafted during his last days. He realized that even this answer could be seen as beautiful "with love." He wanted to convey that joy he felt to his readers. He had found his motivation once more.

>>30862
>Evangelion
>Eva Ange Lion

>>30863
I admit I lol'd.

>>30864
it'sSYMBOLIC.jpg

>>30863
*clapclapclapclap*
>>30866
>laughting of symbolic stuff
>evangelion
hahaha oh god, are you even aware of what are you saying?

...I was going to go for Rin's route first, but change of plan. Yuiko comes first, definitely.

>>30867
Do you even understand what I am saying...?

>>30869
Maybe I don't, who knows.

>>30870
Right. You don't.

Also, an interesting screenshoot.

>>30866
>>30867

>>30873
Why did they make that seemingly nonsensical image? After all these years, that's the answer. I get it. Eva as an EVA. It's over.

>>30875

EVA, EVA everywhere.

>>30873
>>30874
Oh god hahaha.
>>30875
Sleep well rion
>>30876
Are you sleeping as well?

Saku went to bed already? But I just updated /limbo/! I would've done it earlier, but I had to go to get food before the places closed.

I didn't know. Hang on...

>>30879
Seems like he only woke up a few hours ago, too.

How long have I been there.

k now I sleep

>>30882
May your dreams bring you vision of fair maidens.

How boring. Time to collapse, then.

>>30868
Dat fumu

>>30885
I honestly don't know what just happened to this conversation here, but she won me over in ten seconds flat with that. Well, doing Rin's route second won't be so bad I guess.

Also, are you enjoying the mini-games so far? The fucking baseball one is hard but the fights are so goddamn fun. Kyousuke gave me a Japanese Legends Box Set or something and it gave me a massive power-up, I ended up turning Rin into the "Blue DJ" after she challenged me.

>>30884
good night oniisama

>"Hey Riki can I borrow your pen"
>"No. I must wander around and seek out strong opponents."
It can't be helped.

>>30886
I like her but I think I'll stick with Rin. The baseball mini game is fun. I'm getting a little better at it. And for the fights, I'm rank 1 right now! I also defended my title. Rin fell to 4th unfortunately. Masato is last. I get the feeling Kyousuke will climb up and fight me soon. That one Fukoish girl joined the team and I just met Kud.

"GUMMO-NIN EBURIWAN HABU NAISU DEI!"

>>30889
>Rank 1
Did you draw the balloons as your weapon? They're massively overpowered compared to almost everything else. Kyousuke used them against Rin and she set off ten of them at once, it was an instant defeat for her.
I can never seem to beat Kengo, though. Even with the Japanese Legends Box Set and the Mini 4WD accessories giving me sweet power-ups, he keeps beating me by a lot. I've been consistently Rank 2 since the thing started, but Kyousuke made it to Rank 3 just recently so my title may be in danger soon.

Also, I'm just a little ahead of where you are now. I'm helping Kud look for a roommate while making silly choices like Wandering around looking for fights when people ask to borrow pens. What can I say? The fights are too fun to pass up.

>>30890
I can't even remember what weapon I got the first time but my opponent Kengo got what looked like a bag of shit. Second time I got a basketball and defended my title with it. (Kengo got fucking soap.) Maybe I just have A+ rank luck? I hope Kyousuke gets up here soon. Though I'd like to fight Rin too.

Yeah I'll probably just fight all the time too unless Rin needs something. (Preferably a beatdown.)

>>30891
So Kengo got what, the bag of soil and a bar of soap? All I've been getting are toothbrushes and MP3 players. Kengo beat me with a bug when I got the MP3 player. A fucking bug.
The MP3 player is a pretty neat idea for a weapon, though. I mean fighting by closing your eyes and dancing to the beat is kinda cool, if only Riki could hit harder it'd be a stylish weapon to have.

Fighting is fun, I want to reach Rank 1 but Kengo keeps beating me whenever I challenge him. The title he gave me last time was "Loves Kyousuke". Masato was beat by Kyousuke and earned himself the title "The boy who doesn't care about puberty" or something crazy like that. I just need to draw better weapons, the balloons preferably because they can chain combos of like 10+ and insta-kill the opponent if they make one wrong move.

Took long enough.

I am happy to have it back~

>>30893
yup etc

thanks for fixing it george

Kami-sama fixed it! He didn't break it! Jeez you people are so mean.

>>30893

Hmph, you should be thanking kami-sama for his providence.

>>30898
kami-sama arigatou~

Oh wow, and I thought the balloons were overpowered.

I told you George, the server couldn't handle your weight.

>>30901

>>30904

Yeah, seacats lives again.

That's a relief. Do we know what caused it?

>>30907
Obviously having relevant discussions about Umineko was the problem.

>>30907
George was too heavy of a load on the server

>>30907

No idea.

>Rin pitched a knuckle ball
What. How did she even?

There is so much Christmas joy in my heart that it shut down the server~~~

>>30912

http://boards.4chan.org/a/res/58696921
http://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/8262896

>>30913
NO U!

>>30915

>>30916
Weirdo~

Also
>The One Truth is that Uminekofags were run off the board due to their autism, and we never speak about this anime because of it. You should do the same.
I know one of you wrote this.

Wait what. Dammit Kyousuke, I worked hard to earn that title!

>>30908
Heh, well, that's too bad, I wanted to have some more sometime~

>>30912
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

>>30919

>>30758
W-Who? What's a kouhai?

>>30921

>>30921
Hi Belphe.

>>30922
W-What did I do wrong?!

>>30923
Hiya! Do you know who George was talkin about?
Wow it looks like there was a lot of Umineko discussion going on again, that's nice I suppose.

>>30924
Hello.

>>30924
Not the slightest clue. So how've ya been?

>>30924
For leaving that last time before I could finish.
Plus, there was a bug on your head.

>>30920
It's the most wonderful time of the year, of course~

>>30925

>>30925
T-That picture!

>>30926
I think he means the person posting as Moon-chan? I dunno who that is though, nya. I'm good I guess! This site wasn't working for me for a while, no idea why. What about you? Is the Wako route finally out yet?

>>30927
Fufuf, who said I left~? Maybe you just misjudged the situation, Mai-chan.

>>30930

>>30930
...what about it?
>>30929
;_; what?

>>30930
68%, still a while to go yet. And yeah somebody broke something with the site, still don't know what, but at least it's back now.

>>30931
...W-What? Was it something I said?

>>30932
It was cute! I like Nitori so I was a bit taken aback when you posted her~

>>30934

>>30934
Ehe, I see. I like her a lot too.

>>30935
Why do you always hit me!? You should hit some other people too! You're mean, muu.

>>30936
She can't compare to Mokou-tan though. Nitori is probably my second favorite!

>>30938
Hmph, Mokou is good but she doesn't hold a candle to Kaguya. I mainly like all of Eintei, save fore Teiwi.

>>30939
We don't speak that mongrel's name here! S-Stupid Kaguya, always making my Mokou-tan angry. And she's the most beautiful?! Please, Zun must be drunk. Oh wait...

>>30940
Godly, obviously. Everyone likes Ran and Chen.

>>30941
Yatta ne!

>>30941
It's a love-hate relationship.

>>30943
I suppose that's true. It sure would suck being immortal, but at least they both have each other.

My, what's going on in this thread?

>>30945
Get outta' here cow!

>>30947
Ara ara
Someone is jealous

>>30945
>>30947
Hello, Touhous!

>>30946

>>30946
KYA! Forbidden love!

>>30951
Hey Feenie. How's it going today?

>>30948
If any one is jealous, it's you! Jealous of how young and beautiful I am, ha!

>>30949
Hi!

>>30951

>>30952
Making mint candy in my sink. You?

>>30955
Just reading more of Little Busters and kicking ass at the mini-games.
Rin keeps pitching knuckle balls though and they're impossible to hit! She also learned how to pitch a sinker, I mean my god this girl won't stop hitting me in the stomach with them. If it's not knuckles flying all over the place, then it's sinkers flying one after another. This girl is quite the dangerous pitcher.

Also I kinda laughed at how the only reason I recognized what kind of pitches she was making was from watching that baseball anime One Outs.
Kyousuke's mean though, I finally made it to Rank 1 in the battles and as soon as Kurugaya joined I was put right back into last place again. But I have a bunch of accessories giving me sweet power-ups so I'll fight my way back to the top in no time. Unless Yuiko charges at me with a machine gun again.

>>30955
Ewww, mint! Blech!

>>30956
Oh god they get HARDER? Well I was getting good at this anyway. Are they actually serious with the whole baseball thing btw? I'm not that far. And I keep getting the other girls thrown at me so I'm worried about not getting Rin end.

>>30957
Junior Mints is one of the greatest things invented by men you pleb! I also love the ice cream.

>>30958
I dunno, but they've been practicing baseball and the team's grown a bit, so they seem fairly serious at least. Rin's knuckle ball is the thing that keeps me on my toes during that mini-game though, I honestly can never predict where it's going to fly.
I think all you need to do to get Rin's end is to pick her options whenever they come up, like following her, looking for her, running after her, helping her out, etc. and just watching her in the scenes where she's playing with her cats instead of calling out right away otherwise I think you miss out on some CG scenes.

I'm already locked out of Rin's route though, because I chose to Wander when one of her options came up. Seems missing a single one is enough to lock out her route, so watch out for that. Well, I'm going for Yuiko my first playthrough anyway so it's fine for me. Kud's making it hard to stick by that choice though, she's just too moe.

>>30960
I was thinking you'd play a real baseball game and become champions later! Was that choice that locked you out obvious? Cause I usually just wander. Like, was it obvious that not wandering would get you points?

That's great that she joins. I'll do her route next. I wonder if there are after stories too where they die.

My kouhai is a friend who was a grade below me in high school ne.

>>30961
Yeah, it was one of the more obvious choices, but I figured since I was going for Yuiko's route it'd be fine to miss maybe one or two. Turns out that one miss locked me out completely.
I usually just Wander as well, not only are the battles fun but you can also nab some nice accessories if you get lucky.
I'm still not sure about the baseball, but the practice mini-game is fun and I somehow managed to make a 4-hit combo once! Apparently piling up combos is a good way to raise your stats, or so I've heard on /jp/ and /a/.

Also, a choice pops up when you read a poster Kyousuke's stuck up on the wall about scanning a QR code with your phone. If you do, you get a rather lengthy scene later in the classroom where you get to read all sorts of adventures and misadventures of Kyousuke's life, and it's a pretty fun read.

>>30962
Is she cute~?

>>30964

Tabunne.

Three days is child's play.

>>30946
This is not super awesomely delicious! Don't post lewd things that I eventually will be blamed for!