I think "Tea Party at the End" sounds better. And a longer post to accompany it.

But, what the hell. It's not like there won't be another tea party commemorating the end of Umineko.

I didn't feel like writing out something fancy about how much I love Beato or will miss the franchise. Not many people would really read it anyway.

Keep it simple.

>>30543
What a shame. It'd be a nice way to commemorate all of these years.

>>30544
Just enjoy the tea party. The 5 people who have actually read Umineko will enjoy it themselves, while the rest of the community will continue as though nothing happened.

>>30543
>I didn't feel like writing out something fancy about how much I love Beato

>>30546
You sound a little spiteful. Do you regret how things ended here?

>>30546
Hey, I may not have read it (it's apparently, what, longer than war & peace?), but I watched the anime.

>>30549

>>30547
I'll still appear to defend her whenever her name is slandered. Beato and Yasu and everyone else.

>>30548
Things have not ended here, have they?

>>30549
How offensive.

>>30551
No, but maybe they should, seeing as the original purpose has ended. I thought that was what you were upset about.

>>30551
I don't mean that offensively, I'm pretty sure I just saw it pointed out somewhere that it's longer. Maybe even longer that the bible (unsure on that though).

>>30549
I only read like Chapters 1, 2 & 5 and whatever people streamed of it, myself. So about half of it overall, mostly just all the "good" parts of it I guess. Like the parts with Amakusa and such.

>>30552
Isn't it a wonderful thing that a community grew up around the work that wants to stick together after it's over?

>>30555
Only if no one has any lasting regrets. Happiness that excludes even one person isn't true happiness.

>>30553
78864 lines overall according to TLWiki, so a bit longer than Tsukihime. Considering it's a Kinetic Novel with few-to-no branching choices, that's pretty damn long.

>>30556
What if there exists one person who is only happy on the condition that everyone else is not?

>>30556
I don't think that holds much relevance here.

In any case, that's more than enough. I only wanted to post the thread.

Have a nice dream. See you in Hell.

>>30558
Did that person reach this state through a community in which everyone is upset but him? In that case the community failed to reach an adequate state of happiness, as it only pleased one guy with an insane condition for his greed.

>>30559
Geeze, you could have at least left with some degree eloquence. Kids these days.

>>30560
But if that person exists, then by your logic, true happiness cannot exist.

>>30562
Well, see, I was trying to tie true happiness to this community and the medium in which it was built around. I didn't mean it as a general rule of reality.

My answer to that is to kill or change the person. One person stands in the way of everyone's happiness? Get rid of him. Then everyone is happy, yay.

>>30561
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFyeWY7_yKE

>>30563
What if people were unhappy that it had to be resolved that way? It does seem like a demonic way of achieving happiness.

Oh darn, I missed the old fashioned discussion again.

>>30564
I recognized it. You still could do much better, but I guess you deserve points for using an Umineko quote.

>>30565
Kill him in secret. Duh. If no one knows, no one cares.

>>30567
What if, despite the nature of the first theoretical person, there existed a second person who would not be happy if the first disappeared, whether they knew the reason or not?

>>30568
You know that the answer to this ends in blood. A lot of blood. Theoretically that many people shouldn't exist, I guess. Eventually you'd be able to secretly get rid of all the dissenters in quiet, if you had enough power.

You'd almost be like a witch. An evil, Sayaka witch who only wanted to make everyone happy. So tragic.

>>30569
So can true happiness only exist with witches?

>>30570
Yup. Or magi, if they'd ever freaking wish for the right thing.

>>30566
>old fashioned discussion
>look at dis character poll ponytails turn me on hurp let's kill oxen for zeus
wat
new mystery: which part was the old fashioned discussion

This is what happens when you let Belphe in here:
The weirdos come out.

>>30573
If the weirdos flock to Belphie doesn't it make sense that Belphie is a weirdo?

>>30572
I didn't even start that!

>>30573
It's not like I asked for these powers.

>>30572
The part in which the golden witch was posting around, of course.
also
>>30547
;_;

More like good riddance.

>>30574
No, probably not. I fail to see the correlation.

>>30577
T-That's like blasphemy! >>30551 is going to be very disappointed.

>>30577
Oh my~
Such harsh words~

At least tell us why you think that, my dearest~

>>30577
>it's not female, it's shit

>>30577
Your provocations are not unnoticed.

Beatrice is perfect. Do not insult her further, please.

>>30579
"Three people are actually one" is a very disappointing resolution. The Yasu parts of episode 7 were honestly a chore to read, and one of the reasons I argued so heavily against Shkannontrice back in the day was because I thought it was a dumb solution. Still do, I just couldn't really deny it anymore after episode 6.

I don't like how we were originally presented with the idea that this would be some kind of mystery story, but then it turned into a farce at the end. Probably the worst was the mystery violated the spirit of the Knox rules as presented, if not the literal meaning.

>>30580
Hey, I can like male characters just fine. Not Yasu though, that's just terrible writing.

>>30581
Too late.

>>30581
Most likely because Yasu is such a pitiful character~

>>30582
I agree with Ange, for the record. These are all fair points that have been brought up before by /jp/.

>>30582
>>30585
Agreed~

>>30582
I agree with everything Rin just said, actually.

>>30582
I don't think anybody was particularly pleased with the Yasu solution. However, Beato herself is an entirely different character. Yes, Beatrice is a part of Yasu, as are Shannon and Kanon. But they're different characters.

Unless you want to go full anti-fantasy, but since everybody seems to like the fantasy parts more anyway that seems a little silly.

>>30585
Only people who have read it should be allowed to comment.

>>30588
Maybe if it ended differently I would have been inclined to finish. I agree with your assertion there that Beato is a separate character from Yasu. Fair point though, I'll shut up.

>>30582
This. I always debated against "ShKanontrice" guys (thank god that term isn't really used anymore) because the theory was beyond crazy and I couldn't believe what had so far been an intriguing mystery had that at its core.

Unfortunately for me, the author was just as crazy if not moreso than the theorists.

>>30588
>However, Beato herself is an entirely different character
Unfortunately, I don't accept this. Did you notice as we grew closer and closer to the conclusion, there was less and less of a "Beatrice" in the story? It's because as we found out the truth, we discovered there never really was a Beatrice. At least not in the sense presented at first.

>>30580
Wait a second, when was set in stone that Beatrice is a male?
>>30582
Well, the question arc episodes where the "mystery" episodes. If anything Ryukishi prepared us for something like this ages ago, there's the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy hint, for example. Furthermore I believe that ep8 explains in a way why the story ended like this.

>>30591
Yeah, all different shapes and forms. Didn't help that she kept on dying too...~

>>30591
Isn't that more a side effect of the way Ryukishi chose to deliver the truth regarding her?

The last part doesn't strike me as particularly relevant either - Beatrice's mystery was always integral to the story, of course she didn't exist in the way she was first presented.

>>30590
The theorists weren't crazy for reading between the lines. If anything, it's the people who didn't believe in Shkanontrice or some similar theory who were crazy by denying the obvious. THAT is delusional.

>>30592
>it's possibly not female it's shit just in case

>>30594
Those sound like the words of one of the theorists.

>>30595
pfffttt
>>30594
Oh well, I don't consider it delusional until ep6 got translated. Before that we had no real evidence because lol atlas.

>>30594
>Beatrice's mystery

Can't agree with you there, chap. R07 violated every sense of the word mystery. It was more like a deeply buried truth at that point.

>>30594
She doesn't exist in the way first presented because she's Yasu. Some girl(?) went crazy and invented a bunch of imaginary friends for her(?)self. It's not terribly good character design and it's not a good story either. The whole silly debacle started because of fantasies she put in the messages in the bottles.

Another thing that bugged me is the idea that all of the characters as presented are fake. We are given only a skewed viewpoint in their portrayal throughout the various arcs, and the truth of the matter is that none of those things might have happened. In that case, how do we know what these characters are really like? Umineko doesn't give an answer, and that annoys me a lot. Beatrice, of course, never existed and completely disappeared from the story in the answer arc because of all the characters, she's the least real.

>>30596
Well, considering it was right...

>>30598
Mystery, the truth, whatever you please. Beato's heart was one of the key points of the story.

>>30599
>Beatrice, of course, never existed and completely disappeared from the story in the answer arc because of all the characters, she's the least real.

Poor Beato.

>>30598
The problem here is that most people wanted to get an orthodox mystery from Umineko, when the main theme of it was always deception, fantasy and well, trolling in general.
Thanks to the "mystery plot" from the first episodes we got to understood who beatrice was, and why did this massacre started. We don't get to see how exactly happened, Why? well consider Ryukishi a depressed emo if you wish, but he had a reason.

>>30599
The love people felt for Beato is the same love Battler felt when recovering his memory of her. When the truth was revealed and when his memory was restored, it was shown that she didn't exist to both. Battler probably felt the same depression in episode 6 that people feel now that they know the truth. So DEEP, man.

>>30599
Not to mention that when an author insults his readers for not pursuing a truth which he shoves in their faces but refuses to confirm themselves is quite lazy and arrogant, in my opinion.

Rather, he went on a backwards way of doing it.

>>30599
Yes, and? She was always going to be somebody on the island once you ruled out mysterious person X. That she was Yasu and Yasu being somewhat disappointing has already been addressed.

Beato was a great character. She was a lot of fun. Yasu doesn't change that.

>>30605
That's not true, Beatrice arrives on a boat after people start dying.

>>30600
So you want me to sympathize with someone who was crazy and had murderous intent, all the while the author throwing every single "woo is me" background detail upon them?
Nah. I sympathize with Yasu as much as I sympathize with Erika's craziness.

>>30602
We don't get to see anything because R07 wants people to "make up their own decisions" and then say "those decisions are wrong. It's the one I keep hinting at and you are dumb for not seeing it."
R07 might be emo or whatever, be he is an arrogant asshat, that's for sure...

>>30604
>insulting his readers for not pursuing a truth which he shoves in their faces but refuses to confirm themselves is quite lazy and arrogant, in my opinion.
First point, in my opinion most people overeacted with the "goats" stuff. In ep7 Ange tell Auau to never insult his readers (And with this we can sense that Auau doesn't represent Ryukishi feelings about his readers)
Second point: >Lazy and arrogant
Yes, I will accept the arrogant part, but it's definitelly not lazy. He's clearly anything but lazy. His intention was to avoid the lazy ending in which everything is revealed and everyone lives happy in the end. (Higurashi)
>>30599
And when we exactly were told that beatrice was another person? Don't you remember the 19th person stuff? Even Virgilia say in ep that Beatrice is just the personification of the rules of the game.

>>30605
>Yasu didn't change that
Well, it did for me. Since they're the same person, the amount of disappoint I have for Yasu (let's throw in how much I hate the character Lion in there for good measure) significantly outweighs whatever feelings of amusement I might have derived from Beato, and the severe lack of Beato in the second half of the story only served to make matters worse in that regard for me. Even if/when I read episode 8, I'll still know that the Beatrice presented to me in that is fake as well.

Maybe I'm just disappointed because I wanted Beatrice to be real. Not in the sense that she's a witch real, but that there actually was someone like that on the island. Someone fun, someone mysterious. Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does not count.

>>30604
Well, yes, R07 was awful for doing that, though my dislike for R07 is separate from my dislike for Beato, at least. Though I suppose they are related since Beato is nothing more than a byproduct of his addled imagination.

>>30608
You call an ending "lazy," I call it "satisfying."

>>30607
I'm not saying you have to sympathize with Yasu.

But I don't like people pretending Beato is ruined because she is also Yasu. That's wrong, because Beato is still a lot of fun to read whenever she's on screen even after knowing the truth to it all. Maybe it isn't so for some people, maybe they feel she's ruined because they know the truth about her, but we're getting into some really meta rubbish about fictional characters within fictional universes.

I don't see why you can't just enjoy Beato as Beato. I can, it's very easy. Did you stop enjoying the Siesta sisters when you found out they were toys and guns? Or the Stakes of Purgatory when you found out they were based on maids and were also completely fictional?

>>30608
episode 1 ura tea party

>>30611
I consider the maids and the stakes the same people, and I never really gave the siestas a second thought. So maybe?

>>30610
Well, and tell me how this story could have ended in a satisfying end?
Massacre in a dessert island which has 100 tons of TNT, caused by the greed of the family without Hanyuu to revive Battler every time.
Yes you can say the ending is "open" because we didn't know to see how exactly the massacre happened, but that was to allow Ange to have a satisfying and successful live in the end.

>>30611
I liked the stakes more when I found out they were maids.

>>30608
You just said you accepted the arrogant part. He's arrogance is partly shown, if not all shown, through Auau. And Auau is, in fact, a representation of him, no matter how you look at it. It's almost as if you are denying Shkannontrice all over again. Auau is his avatar and used it to indirectly (if you can call it that) his readers.

That is the one thing I will not forgive. I can forgive the crap ending, the leading on, the Yasu character even, but I will not stand for a writer to insult the people who made his work what it is today.
If he meant no harm, he should make it much more clearer. He didn't. And made it all the more clearer he is addressing the readers themselves.

>>30609
>Someone fun, someone mysterious. Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does not count.
But Yasu is Beato with bonus content.

>>30613
They're not the same however.

>>30615
One of them was a perfect maid, at least.

>>30614
Well, the first step would be to have a better character as Beatrice.

>>30611
Well, I have to give it some thought, but I do like Erika, regardless of whether she was a fanfic extra or not.

So I'll agree with you that much.

>>30614
Both the story itself and Ange's life needed closure. Which was screwed over by letters and fanfics.

>>30619
No such character exists.

>>30617
I don't buy that because you can't prove it, but even if you assume it to be the case, I would say the "bonus content" ruins it.

>>30618
You may say so, but I consider them to be the same regardless.

>>30619
Rin vision

>>30622
Why would you say that?

>>30621
Which is the problem.

>>30623
For the record, I never once supported Jessitrice except in a joking manner to troll Luci.

>>30624
Say what?

Eh, Saya no Uta was better. So was Tsukihime, even though I didn't even finish that.

>>30626
>I would say the "bonus content" ruins it.

>>30622
Well, if you think about it, you can add anything to a sandwich. But you don't do it because it ruins the sandwich, right~?

>>30616
Yes, I did accept he is arrogant, but you must accept he was in a difficult positon.
Ryukishi said that when he was writting Higurashi he was mostly doing it for himself (well maybe also for BT) but without really looking at the fan feedback.
But he said that he decided to write Umineko for his fans, so he always keep reading the fanbase comments of his work.
Trying to please a lot of public it's not a easy thing, I can assure that, I believe he did not wanted to repeat the Higurashi style of ending (which I liked, but I know a lot of people didn't like it) so he tried to give Umi a more meaningful ending (DEEP if you wish).
But how do you please a fanbase with so many different tastes, theories and ideals? That's what the problem he had to confront with, and well apparently his tactic was not successful as most people just took it as an offense. Then I wonder if the readers are not a bit arrogant as well.
>>30619
I think most people liked the "Beatrice exists shes moe and she comes in a boat after the first twilight", but the story hinted that she doesn't exist. Well she does, but not as the 19th human on the island.

>>30628
>>30629
Right, and I HATE mayonnaise.

>>30630
>Beatrice exists shes moe and she comes in a boat after the first twilight
That's dumb and has no clues or hints. So naturally I cannot accept that as the answer.

>>30632
Hahaha yes it's silly but I remember it as one of the more popular theories back then.

>>30631
But why is the Yasu added stuff bad rather than good?

I think it would be worse if Beatrice was simply another human who wasn't one of the others, and was just as she was presented. It's flat. How can there be a mystery regarding her heart, which was foreshadowed early on, when she's just as she appears?

It had to be someone, either acting or as a split personality. The Yasu situation, due to the level of involvement she has with her characters, is a little of both. I think that's actually more realistic than either one or the other. Though obviously, none of them are realistic.

>>30633
I can't do that because I happen to know that Beatrice is Yasu and Shannon/Kanon were already on the island.

>>30634
That's fair, but the problem is that it was Yasu. And you know my opinion on Yasu.

Besides, the Yasu of reality is a lot like a "real" Beatrice. She is indeed a second master the servants are loyal to, as Beatrice the phantom is presented in episode 1. She is the true ruler of the island, she loves Battler, she has a penchant for trolling.

What exactly is the dissatisfying part?

>>30630
He wrote himself into the difficult position.
Ever heard the expression "you can please everyone?"
He should have picked a target he could hit. But he kept writing himself into corners, which showed as his work progressed.

He shouldn't have been trying to please every single person that read it. He should have wrote it for himself first, and then see what he could do to incompace those thoughts of the readers into the writing. Not the other way around.

But no matter which way you slice it, the only part and reason I hate that ep because it blatantly insults the readers in various ways. That's it.

>>30636
I know your opinion on Yasu but not why you hold that opinion.

>>30639
Because Yasu is a pathetic excuse for a character who created a bunch of imaginary friends. Also, your description here is not of Yasu itself, but rather an illusion he/she created.
>>30637
Yasu didn't "love" Battler. She created a personality that loved him. Like she created Shannon who loved George, or Kanon who loved Jessica. None of these were real, they were just ideas Yasu created specifically for those purposes.

It seems you're unable to like Beato. I won't press the issue any further.