No. 158

>>153
Kinjo said that picking Kanon would be a 'cheap solution' whatever he means by that. And his mention of Vine dine's 1st says the culprit must be introduced to us on the first day. Introduced must mean they were shown and said there name to Erika.

Another possiblity besides using Shannon to fake the body and then switching to Kyrie. Is body of 20th person, who was hinted at in the story. Erika said "More people than we know might be on this island." However due to Dine and Knox they can't be the culprit, but they can be fake Natsuhi bodies.

No. 159

>>157
I know, I was just throwing that out there.

No. 160

>>158
Err.. Knox's 1st.

No. 161

>>160
Fake!Battler again?

No. 162

Remember, according to Knox disguises can't be used "without clues."

No. 163

>>162
Yeah, but what about a corpse disquesd as a different corpse? Are corpses people?

No. 164

>>162
Yeah, that's the tricky part right there. Is there any evidence anybody was using a disguise at any point in the story? Or are there items that might be used to manufacture such a disguise? (Like, I dunno, a duct tape corset?)

No. 165

>>164
What about his for clues of a disquese that someone faked their death. "The faces were destroied, so only clothes could tell." "Kanon's strange dissapearence suggests something is wrong with the 1st twilight." And "Kyrie's make-up kit."

No. 166

>>163
I think it would be pretty much a violation of the spirit of the rule to have a corpse dressed as someone else without even a single clue.

It may not be strictly forbidden, but both Knox and Van Dine have rules that deal with this (the dummy figure alibi, disguises need clues). There should be something more concrete.

No. 167

Here's something. Reviewing the data, Erika used her theatergoing authority to force Genji to tell her who he saw in the shed.

I think this is important, because of what Kinjo said earlier about the Theatergoing Authority. Someone cannot "lie" intentionally under it, supposedly, they have to report what they honestly believe they saw.

So Genji can't be covering for Kanon.

Furthermore, a point is made that Nanjo is among the first twilight candidates. I believe we can use this. As Ange points out, this does call the truth of the deaths of the first twilight victims into question. Still, the one hurdle we need to overcome is how they did it.

...I don't think it's fake-Battler/Kanon who is the culprit. In the first place, I see a suspicious lack of motive there. In the second, Erika didn't meet Kanon at any point in the story, he was only mentioned. I feel as though Erika definitely met the culprit at the dinner table, with no disguises or mistakes involved.

No. 168

>>167
That means that there had to be at least 5 actual bodies inside; if not 6. If Shannon faked being as Kanon's corpse, then we have 5. I find it suspisous, that Shannon says that Kanon was with her doing chores during the night. I mean he died, so how was he with her. And how Genji says that Kanon was with him inside the servants room. But Kyrie says she talked to Kanon, same with Jessica.

No. 169

>>168
Shannon does say that. However, she also says she went to bed around 2AM and only did chores up to that point, after taking drinks to everyone.

Also, consider that Shannon says she was doing paperwork in the servant's quarters before that--but from Genji's testimony, Kanon was the one in the servant's room with him when they got the call, and he sent Kanon to "do chores."

No. 170

Huh. I had the misconception that the culprit had to be alive at the end of the story, but there don't seem to be any rules regarding that. There are, however, a lot of ways that a culprit could die being made impossible (suicide, guilt, accident), so this is probably of no importance.

No. 171

>>169
That makes it sound like Shakannon, but I that means that Shannon was faking as Kanon's corpse, which is just plain weird. So what she just erased the Kanon personailty? Because doesn't the calender in the servants room say the next days who is working, and Shannon is on that list.

No. 172

>>170
They have to be alive almost. They can't be killed by someone else, they can't kill themselves, they can't die in an accident, they can't be killed by there own trap (That is suicide)

The only ways I can see for them to die is, natural causes, a natural disaster, or an animal attacking and killing them. (But I think the animal would be discounted as a person)

No. 173

>>172
...Such as a heart attack?

No. 174

>>171
...I admit, the fact that Erika used the Theatergoing Authority to get Genji to say that Kanon was a victim is highly suspect. One way or the other, shouldn't Genji have known about ShKannon? Shouldn't he be responding a bit differently? I honestly don't know what to make of that at this point.

No. 175

>>174
That would mean that Genji either doesn't know. (Which should be impossible, I feel) Or Kanon actually exists, but was killed as mentioned. His body was moved disposed off to maybe create the illusion of Shkannon. I don't know.

No. 176

>>174
Well, if Shannon is Kanon, and Shannon really was in the shed when Genji looked into it, dressed as Kanon, it would make sense for Genji to report things as he did. Because the theatergoing authority forces the subject to report things, exactly as they see and believe them, then it would be logical for Genji to say "Kanon" if Kanon had been the active personality at the time, regardless of whether or not Genji knew of Shkanon's existence, I think.

No. 177

...Who reported that Kanon was inside the shed anyway? And what's the earliest point you can get inside?

No. 178

>>175
If Kanon does "exist," then to what aim? I can't make him the culprit.

>>176
Right, it's like how we expected it. But then I have to ask: why? Why was Shannon in the shed dressed as Kanon, faking Kanon's death? It seems like she was threatened by the culprit, and the letter confirms this, but why did the culprit think it was important that Kanon died then?

Once again, I can't shake the feeling that this somehow relates to the fact that Lion can exist in this kakera, if Beatrice is denied.

No. 179

>>177
Genji says that Kanon was one of the victims. Which is when everyone is gathered in the parlor I believe. Which means that Shannon should also be in the parlor. He can't really lie, if he knows Kanon doesn't exist, for his brain would think logically, I believe and respond with. "I don't know who that was. Since it can't be Kanon."

And the first time you can reach the shed is right after the letter is found.

No. 180

>>178
The 'why' I'm wondering about is why the corpses from the 1st twilight vanish. The 2nd twilight's corpses vanishing is obviously made to cast suspision on Shannon. The only person who saw the bodies, if Erika doesn't go. Maybe the 1st twilight missing bodies is the same, to cast suspision on Kanon?

No. 181

>>179
I know it's a stretch, but what if the culprit gave themselves away by saying he was in there, because they put him there earlier than the rest of the corpses, but somebody, for some reason, removed him from the shed without their noticing? Genji might lie to go along with them or not arouse suspicion or something, I don't know. Point is that guilty knowledge could point to the culprit.

No. 182

Here is a thought. Several people mention they don't see Kanon at dinner, yet Kanon is added to the TIPs screen at that point, is he not?

Doesn't that mean Erika did meet him at dinner?

No. 183

>>178
What if the reason they want Shannon to fake being 'dead' kanon is because they don't want it to seem like Kanon is possibly out there and a possible culprit. Jessica?

No. 184

>>183
Adding onto my above post. What if Kanon actually left Rokkenjima the day before the confrence, would explain why no one saw him. And Shannon faked that conversation with Jessica to try and bring some closure to her, but this caused her to crack. And maybe Krauss found info at the end that proved that Kanon left the island 2 days ago. So that is why he says "Tell Jessica, Kanon can't be the culprit." "Kanon doesn't exist on Rokkenjima anymore"

No. 185

I can't help but thinking that maybe money isn't the motive. I mean the adults all agreed to work together. Maybe Hideyoshi suspects that to be the motive which is why he says everything will be fine to George and then looks at the atlas.

And also another thing that I can't help think is that, the culprit really isn't that nasty of a person. The ways of death are pretty nice really, I guess we don't know for sure how the 1st twilight people died, but 2nd twilight poison (quick, painless or not very painful), 5th, shot to the heart, (Quick, painful but short) 6th, shot to the heart. 7th shot the the leg (but with all the other blood loss it just made it so Rosa could die) 8th, gunshot wound to the knee and then eyes gorged (Knee wouldn't kill, so most likely Genji might have been alive while getting his eyes gorged, VERY VERY Painful, I imagine) Genji's death seems the worst and most cruel.

No. 186

I'm unlikely to be around at all tomorrow, so let me make sure I get everything out I need to say before then.

Genji, will you be making one of those nice megaposts like you made before for our guess this time?

Are we pretty sure about using Natsuhi as the culprit this time, or are we going in a different direction?

No. 187

>>186
But do we have a way for her to fake her death?

No. 188

>>186
Honestly, I'm a little bit lost as far as that goes as well. We've raised some interesting questions, and proposed some new ideas, but nothing that I think i'd be able to string together into one cohesive post. If we use Natsuhi, we still don't have a method for her to fake her death with that we all seem to agree upon, nor do we have anything that to me looks like a definite explanation of why Kanon is listed as a shed victim.

At this point i'll admit, i'm rather at a loss for what to do.

No. 189

>>188
Personally; I'm right now more in favor of Jessica than Natsuhi for, if Natsuhi was the culprit, why did she do it now? Our motive for her was hatred for Kinzo and his family. Why didn't so commit the murders years ago when Kinzo was still alive, and why is such nicer ways if she hates them so much.

No. 190

I don't know if people are still wondering but no matter what you do Erika will never see Kanon alive or dead.

No. 192

>>189
If we assume it's Jessica, how do we explain Maria's death?

No. 193

>>192
Easy. She left and went on the ledge using the window and then went into the bathroom shot Maria, went back out on the ledge and then carefully crept back into the room through the same window she left before. The text says the ledge connects all rooms. And Jessica is not shown during the part when Maria heads to the bathroom, or during the scene when they rush inside.

No. 194

>>193
I...suppose, but are we really supposed to believe nobody would have noticed Jessica mysteriously vanishing from the study? Especially Erika, who was dead set on interrogating them only moments earlier. her losing track of someone in that situation just seems beyond incompetent. Well, if we do go with an Idea like that, feel free to write the post on it. In all honesty, recent events have somewhat killed my enthusiasm for solving this at the present time, and I'm not sure I feel up to writing another extensive, dramatic post like the previous one.

No. 195

>>187
>>188
Yes, those are problems, aren't they?

>>189
If you want my perspective, I thought perhaps Natsuhi was trying to raise Yasu as the proper heir. I haven't really mentioned this before though because not everything adds up. It may be more based on hate that Natsuhi may feel for Yasu instead.

I thought that Krauss's decision to divide the wealth would serve as the motive. If not because of the money itself, then the shame it brings to the Ushiromiya name. In any case, the decision to divide the wealth seems crucial to the plot to me, and may factor into the motive of whatever culprit.

Hmmm... I wish I had something more concrete to offer. My apologies.

>>189
...Why would Jessica do it? I can't see her snapping and killing her parents, and everyone else. Not just mentally, but physically, she's lugging the corpses around and hiding them, then popping back up in time for Erika to see her where she'd be expected to be.

No. 196

>>194
If you want Genji, I can write the post. I have both an Evil Natsuhi with gun sprite, and a Jessica one. But first we have to decide what we want to go with, plus resolve any problems the theory has.

No. 197

>>190
I realize his sprite never appears in front of Erika, but that's not the point. The point is that, at dinner, Erika gets everyone updated in the TIPs who is present, supposedly. Kanon among them.

No. 198

(Rosa Here)
>>197
Doesn't Kinzo's also get updated?

No. 199

>>198
Yes, but he is marked as dead. ...Actually, he may have appeared in the TIPs even before Erika was introduced.

No. 200

(Rosa)
>>199
Nope, he doesn't show up in the Tips until the dinner.

No. 201

>>200
Ah. I really need to look at the beginning stages of the game again. I already feel so fatigued tonight, though... I wonder what caused that?

Hmf. I definitely sense a lack of energy as compared to when we were presenting the Nanjo theory. I'm feeling that myself, though I can hardly take any credit for that theory myself (you guys put together that when I wasn't even around). Of course, moping won't help anything, so I'll cut myself off there~

Ugh. At this point I can't think of anyone who even begins to fit other than Natsuhi or someone outside of the people Erika saw throughout the game. I wonder what Kinjo meant when he said we could be "closer than we think."

No. 202

(Rosa)
>>201
Shall we go with the Natsuhi uses body of 19th person to fake her death then? We will learn if there is a 19th person, and Natsuhi if the culprit. Without a 19th person I don't see the crime being possible for anyone really besides Jessica or George.

No. 203

Kinjo didn't wanted to say how many people is on the island. And from Genji testimony we know something strange happened here.
If Kinzo corpse was preserved this much time, wouldn't be posible for another preserved corpse to be on the island? That's like a hint to me.

No. 204

(Rosa)
>>203
So Kanon is actually just a corpse, his body was preserved, and Shannon preteneded to be Natsuhi, or Shannon pretended to be Kanon's body and another body was used for Natsuhi, or both of them are just perseved bodies?

No. 205

>>204
Shannon pretending to be natsuhi? Not sure, I had to re-read the game. I might do it.

No. 206

(Rosa)
>>205
So did Natsuhi then replace Shannon for Kyrie?

No. 207

I'm starting a thread with a few screenshoots with the whydunnit of Natsuhi, if that helps at all.

No. 263

Good article, great to find out people taking some sociable obligation.