Even if this is my first time doing something like this, I won't lose to any of your trick witch !

>>9882
Was the detective detective the whole game?

Kinzo did not create the closed room himself.
What if Kinzo is an accomplice and created it not by himself, but with the help of others?


I ask Genji to describe the lock of the door, I want to know what kind of lock it is and the way it works. Also, I want to know if a lockpick would work on it.

I might have to ask you to describe your definition of a living human.

Please, if anything I am a sorcerer.

>>9884
Naturally Genji has been and always will be the only detective in this game.

There is no accomplice, willing or not. There is only a single culprit.

"The lock is a simple deadbolt with an autolock feature. You can unlock it from the outside using one of the two keys to the study. As it is an autolock once you shut the door it will lock the bolt shut. You have to unlock the bolt in order to leave the room."

The door can only be locked and unlocked from the outside using one of the keys.

A living human = a human who is not dead Don't think to hard about wordplay with living humans. It just gets convoluted rather easily and won't help you to solve this.

The attack that was mentioned earlier (where the culprit was in the room) is not the direct cause of death. While Kinzo was paralyzed, unconscious, or otherwise unable to make action, the culprit set up what would lead to Kinzo's death.

Not exactly sure what I would say were these set-ups, but I'd venture something crazy like tying the phone line around his neck.

Otherwise, the voice Genji heard on the phone was either a recording or was not Kinzo's voice.

>>9886
Interesting... I might as well break the feet by which it holds ground.

The voice Genji heard was unmistakably Kinzo.

Devil's proof. Kinzo's new clothes somehow caused him to asfixiate.

>>9888
>2013
>devil's proof

If you can make a theory involving them then I will respond.

Well, I was expecting that answer, anyway.
The clothes were so tight they stopped his lunges from breathing.
The clothes had some kind of chemical that paralyzed Kinzo.

Then again, could you define poison, considering you ruled it out already?

>>9890
Poison = A substance that, when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism, causes death.

Kinzo's lungs worked fine, they just didn't get any oxygen at some point.

There were no chemicals that can cause paralysis on Kinzo's body during the course of this game.

>>9892
An allergy can slip past that definition, therefore Kinzo died from an allergic reaction to something.

Otherwise maybe the composition of the air killed him. Nobody would considered CO2 a poison, but if dry ice were to sublimate in the room, the ratio of oxygen in the air would not be sufficient to sustain human life.

>>9894
The amount of oxygen in the room was optimal for human life.

Kinzo did not die from an allergy. Nor did he have an allergic reaction.

The culprit somehow thinned out the air on Kinzo's room.
The culprit mixed something into the air, causing the oxygen levels on the air to decrease.
And the letter and the key were hidden in Kinzo's clothes.

I worked hard for this one.
>>9893
New theory. The killer knocked out Kinzo, he then put something inside is mouth with some tape or anything that could make it stick there. When Kinzo wake up he realise that something is there and by reflex swallow it, he then dies from the stucked object in his throat. The scratch on his neck is made by himself trying to get the object out.

>>9897
The first two are already denied by my last post. As for the other...

The letter was place into the room by the culprit's own hand.

>>9901
Kinzo did not die from an object being stuck in his throat.

However you are correct that some of the neck marks Kinzo made himself by scratching at his neck.

>>9903
is food concidered an object too? I will replace the word object with anything solid.

>>9904
Yes. You can consider "object" as anything that could have gone in his throat that would obstruct the airway.

>>9905
Just to be sure there is no wordplay
Something was stuck in his throat and although it did not block the airway, it clogged the airway badly enough to cause death

Also,
Based on Knox 8th, the fact that Kinzo inflicted the scrath mark on hiw own indicates that he was frantically trying to remove something threatful to his life that was located in his throat, no matter what effect the said object had on him, and therefore it is safe to assume that the said object is the cause of his death, that this object was the murder weapon and that at the exact moment where kinzo died

>>9908
It cant be in his throat, it cant be in his mouth or nose, or genji would have known. hmmm let's think

>>9906
For the purpose of this game there was never anything in Kinzo's throat that could cause death in any way.

Kinzo was indeed scratching at his throat to stop the murder weapon from killing him.

>>9911
I can't think of anything, but something in the air.

Genji said "I did not smell anything out of the ordinary in the room." and all the reds about drugs and poisons. let me try something,It's not a coincidence that the vent is activated, there was something in the air of the room at the time of the murder.

>>9912
I won't use red as that has already been denied.

>>9893
>>9896
>>9853
>>9817

>>9912
To make sure u understand my blue, I think when u talked about the poisons and the chemical, it may be that u told us about the time that they discovered the corpse. I want to know at the time of the death.

>>9914
There were no problems with the air in the study during the course of the entire game.

>>9916
That's fine. Better safe than sorry. This is nothing compared to the games back during the old website.
Although I would suggest looking for wordplay else where.

>>9917
Alright ! And yeah i can agree this is wayyyyyyy more complicate than anything i have done until now.

What if the cause is illness/hallucination, my uncle had that once, he thought about his breath and eventually freaked out and stopped breathing. The killer still knocked him out, thinking that he was dead and activated that illness in his brain. (in that case the murder weapon would be himself)

There must be some loophole around, I'm sure.

>>9918
Well that's different. In any case.
Nothing to do with his mental state was involved in this murder. The murder weapon is physical and has been mentioned in the story.

>>9920
Alright, there has to be something I forgot, there must be !!

I ask Genji about the telephone, is the cable in a normal shape, is it twisted? does it has saliva anywhere on it, Is there something on the door from the inside side, like a coat rack,

>>9922
"I did not find anything odd with the phone at all. The cable was in perfect condition and I can only assume the master used the phone it to call us and nothing else. There is nothing like a coat rack on or beside the door."

>>9923
What are your thoughts about this genji? is there something that you find suspicious, but have not been asked yet about it?

>>9925
I will have to refuse Genji to answer that. Unless you want to try something else.

I suggest rereading the thread as there should be enough to solve it.

>>9926
Say that in red, and i will call it a night. Tomorrow i will be back with the answer!!!!!

"There is enough information in the thread to solve this game"

>>9927
I would have used gold, however you currently have more information than I did back when I solved this game 2 years ago so I can say it without doubt:

There is enough information in the thread to solve this game.

Oh and if it wasn't obvious from the title the whydunit doesn't matter for this game. I will be satisfied with the howdunit, and the whodunit is optional.

The game:

This game follows Umineko's version of Knox.
Everyone besides Kinzo who had been mentioned during the story was seen by the detective in the dinning room at the time of the phone call.
Windows are included in exits/entrances. Same with any air vents for the purpose of this gameboard.
During the entire course of this game each human can only have one name. When they die they do not lose that name and nobody can share a name or pass it on. A name can only refer to the body it belongs to.
There are no name tricks or DID solutions to this mystery.
Genji has been and always will be the only detective in this game.
There is no accomplice, willing or not. There is only a single culprit.
The door can only be locked and unlocked from the outside using one of the keys.
The voice Genji heard was unmistakably Kinzo.
Poison = A substance that, when introduced into or absorbed by a living organism, causes death.
There were no problems with the air in the study during the course of the entire game.


Kinzo's study:

Upon unlocking the room right before the discovery of Kinzo's corpse the second key was already inside the room.
There was no needle ever attached to the phone. Kinzo was not stabbed in any way which caused his death.
Just like the second key, the letter was already in the room before the door was unlocked by Genji.
It is impossible to slip the letter or key into the room once the entrance/exits are closed and locked.
There is an autolock on the door. However the last time it activated Kinzo was inside the room and alive.
The windows cannot be locked from the outside of the room.
Neither the key or letter was inserted into the room from the outside.
The last time the autolock activated Kinzo had no lethal wounds nor was he dying from any attack.
Before Genji even unlocked the door the window was already locked.
The moment before Genji unlocked the door and entered no living human being was in the room.
The moment before Genji unlocked the door and entered no living human being was in the study.
Neither the door or window are broken in any way.
There is no opening that would allow a human to be partially inside of the study while the entrances/exits were closed.
From when the autolock was last activated to when discovery of the corpse Kinzo was the only person in the room
The window has to be closed in order to be locked.
The amount of oxygen in the room was optimal for human life.
The letter was place into the room by the culprit's own hand.


Kinzo:

Kinzo was murdered. This is a homicide.
Kinzo died from hypoxia. In other words lack of oxygen.
Kinzo did not create the closed room himself.
Kinzo was attacked by the culprit while they were both inside the room.
Kinzo was not killed by a drug or poison.
Kinzo was never injected with anything during the course of this game.
Kinzo's lungs worked fine, they just didn't get any oxygen at some point.
There were no chemicals that can cause paralysis on Kinzo's body during the course of this game.
Kinzo did not die from an allergy. Nor did he have an allergic reaction.
Kinzo did not die from an object being stuck in his throat.
However you are correct that some of the neck marks Kinzo made himself by scratching at his neck.
For the purpose of this game there was never anything in Kinzo's throat that could cause death in any way.
Kinzo was indeed scratching at his throat to stop the murder weapon from killing him.
Nothing to do with his mental state was involved in this murder. The murder weapon is physical and has been mentioned in the story.

>>9928
Kinzo's new clothing is directly related to his death! Perhaps something in, on, or around the clothing choked him!

Long ago you used such a trick where the culprit put a material in the neckline of the clothing that would react to changed in humidity/pressure and would shrink. The neckline would then choke the victim.

>>9868
The culprit slid the letter and key inside through an open entrance somewhere.
I don't see any red stating all the entrances are impossible to close from the outside, or that all of them were closed when Genji unlocked the door.

>>9930
Ahaha. This game was made a year before that one to which you are referring. I'll respond anyway.

There was nothing on, in, or around the clothing that choked him.

>>9932
Clearly that's because the clothing itself choked him

>>9931
I would have said Knox's 3rd but assume you meant the already mentioned openings.

Naturally the door and window can be closed from the outside. Locking however is different as already stated in red. When Genji unlocked the door the only other entrances/exits were all closed and locked.

The vents were bolted however that is practically the same thing.

>>9933
The clothing cannot move on its on.

Really now, was there even a clue for that?

>>9935
What if the clothing was tight or restrictive enough to make breathing difficult? You didn't actually deny the clothing choking him, you leave open the idea that someone or something caused it to move or that it choked him without moving

The culprit walked inside the room, and attacked Kinzo in a way that would take it some time to kill him. Then he left the letter and the key inside and left the study.
The problem here is the murder weapon, considering The murder weapon is physical and has been mentioned in the story, I can only think of the new tailored clothes.

Please, repeat this in red: "Kanon, Shannon, Gohda, Genji, Krauss, Lady Jessica, Natsuhi and Dr. Nanjo are the only humans at Rokkenjima"

>>9939
Kinzo, Kanon, Shannon, Gohda, Genji, Krauss, Jessica, Natsuhi and Dr. Nanjo are the only humans in this tale and on Rokkenjima.

>>9938
>>9936
Alright I'll admit it. The new clothing is the murder weapon.

However if you have been checking the reds that you will know that doesn't solve the closed room.

Doctor Nanjo is the culprit. He modified the Kinzo's and delivered it. While inside the room, he placed the Key and the letter in a place that Kinzo nor Genji would see. When Genji and Nanjo left the study, Kinzo locked the door and window, creating the closed room. Then he dressed the new clothing, suffocated and called the dining room, after that, he died.
And now, the whydunnit.
Nanjo's grandchild disease got worse. He asked Kinzo for money, but he denied. Seeking the gold of the epitaph, Nanjo killed Kinzo, so that with fear that the epitaph continue, they would find the gold.

>>9943
My how dunnit and who is a little different.

The clothe was not in his throat, but around it.

I present the following theory:
Because of this red However you are correct that some of the neck marks Kinzo made himself by scratching at his neck.

Some of the neck marks imply that there are more scratchs, my theory is that Kinzo was hanged with his cape. Because it is clothes and the way the knock was made, it took some time to actually hurt him or put him in a real danger of death. The killer knew he would call for help, so he let the telephone near him. He is also the one that told genji to answer the phone, Krauss !! The part that strangled him is the door, and Krauss knew that Natsuhi would rush into it, and when she tried to force it open, The knock broke and the body dropped on the floor. They didn't hear the sound because Natsuhi was yelling too loud. Also, because the cape was attached on Kinzo and the way he dropped on the floor, it looked like nothing of the sort happened.

For the closed room itself, the knock didn't let the door be fully closed and the lock wasn't activated, so the last time it was activated Kinzo was still alive and not in a danger of death. As I said first, the killer simply went out by the door.

>>9943
>>9946
>>9947
To be honest some points are off and I can't full grasp some of the English, however if I merge all of these blues together I believe that is close enough.

Dr.Nanjo is indeed the culprit. However he did not modify the clothing. The process of the crime went as follows;
Earlier Kinzo got dressed into his new clothes and Genji left the study to go help prepare for dinner.
Nanjo arrived at the door and because Kinzo believed him to be friend he let Nanjo into the room.
They stayed in the room until it was time for dinner, to which Kinzo refused to eat. During the phone call Nanjo placed the letter in the room.
Nanjo got up to leave and after opened the door pushed Kinzo around and grabbed his cape. He closed the door activating the autolock and pulled on the cape. Because of this Nanjo effectively hung Kinzo from the outside as the cape served as a bridge into the room. This forced Kinzo in the air and started to suffocate him.
Nanjo, wanting to keep his alibi clean, tied the end of the cape to the outside doorknob.
Of course this didn't quite kill Kinzo as his fought for his breath. With a last amount of effort he reached the phone and called Genji.

When they arrived at the door they could clearly see the cape tied to the doorknob and that is why Natsuhi was so frantic at trying to get it off. It was never said Genji has a perfect POV after all. Just that he couldn't lie.
When investigating the corpse it was said the cape was open in the back. Capes open in the front and not the back meaning the cape had wrapped around Kinzo's neck while struggling.

This is the answer.

>>9952
And for the record let it be known that it is possible that GE’s version was slightly different although the main trick is the same.

It is entirely possible the clothing was modified and was simply caught in the the door by accident and the letter was hidden in the clothing. Although I believe the answer above to be more definitive.

Of course with GE gone there is no way to check. Not that it really matters.

>>9952
Ah, I see. 'twas a good game, Ozaki, my fellow detectives.

I have so much to learn, but I did learn a lot from this game. I need to think more strategically and move step by step. I need to think about every blue with precision or the red spider web will have the best of me, anyway good game sorcerer and everyone.