>>8884
December 15th? I don't know if I'll be able to finish and put together a theory by then, but I'll try my best.

Can't wait until I have a chance to play this thing~

>>8885
Yeah... I apologize that the time limit is so restrictive. It had to be in order to fit everything into our schedules.

>>8884
>Kinjo lost and I have won.
>Kinjo lost

>>8887
Oh you

>>8885
Anyway , as it has been said. This version of the game has quite a few typos and grammar errors we missed. Those will be patched up for the final version which will also be purged of any typos before we release it.

Regardless, the mystery is not effected by it. So please anyone reading try you best to solve it.

>>8885
On the bright side, if you're lucky we won't finish in time and as a result delay the time limit!

>>8887
>mfw

For those who seem to be settled on their final theories, I'll give you all one last hint.

The following statement is true.

Ruon is not the culprit.

>>8890
Then it was Ruon's mom.

Here are the maps that weren't in this version of the game.
Boonce went down a while ago so I had to re-uploaded them.

http://plonq.org/up/guesthousef1.png
http://plonq.org/up/guesthousef2.png
http://plonq.org/up/mansionf1.png
http://plonq.org/up/mansionf2.png
http://plonq.org/up/mansionf3.png
http://plonq.org/up/guestroom3murders.png
http://plonq.org/up/storagemurder.png
http://plonq.org/up/56murders.png

I sat down for two hours yesterday reading over things and trying to formulate a theory, and I barely got anywhere. Rosa culprit, Manon culprit, Battler culprit, Berune culprit. I analysed many different possibilities and kept finding evidence that made them impossible. I was even moving towards a Yasu theory at one point before I remembered you already confirmed her dead. You've done a really good job here, Ozaki; I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to come up with anything, or if I do I'm probably going to end up having to post something I know is wrong.

The incident three years ago seems to be the key, but there's so little information on it, I don't even know where to begin trying to figure out what actually happened. And without knowing that, it seems impossible to come to the motive for the murders in the present. Still, I'll do my best not to stop thinking until the very end. I think I need to do another reread and make some detailed notes this time...

>>8893
Well don't be too hard on yourself. This was originally a game of revenge after all. At least you can't do as bad as Kinjo did.

If I were you describe the logic behind the game without spoilers I would picture this as a puzzle that you would have to put all of the pieces together at the same time. However some of the pieces were left in the box, our you dropped some on the ground.

In this game the who, how, and why work harmoniously. So if a theory doesn't have a working one of all three then you can probably bet it's wrong or you missed something. At the very least I know it's possible to pick the correct culprit.

This probably won't help you at all, but whatever.

I am very happy to say that we are close to releasing the full version.

There's still some stuff we need to do. It'll be done either tonight or tomorrow, depending on how fast we work.

>>8896
Oh, right, which means you better send in your theories soon. Almost forgot to mention that.

In the end we won't release it tonight, if we were to release it now it would have been painfully rushed.

Monday is the new release date. It still won't be the 'final' version, however it will have the teaparty and ura teaparty containing the answers.

I have received 4 theories, however I decided not to post them here since only one of them actually went into detail. 1 out of the 4 solved the who and why, just in case you were wondering.

We both got sick, expect release later in the week.

After a long wait it's finally done. Here is the answer to Repercussion.

http://www.mediafire.com/?4p64319oo6aj1e8
http://www.mediafire.com/?0vc57rghqs36s6g

This version includes the teaparty and ura-teaparty containing the answer to this mystery. Again this is not the final version of the game but it is presentable. Feel free to point out any bugs or typos but remember that we are aware there are a number of them.

With that said I hope you enjoy the game.

>>9009
btw the very last sentence of the ura-teaparty is really cheesy, you can thank Kinjo for that part.

Erm... I'm afraid I'm unable to download the first part (says that Mediafire doesn't support split archives or something?) The second part, by the looks of it downloads fine, on the other hand...

That's odd... Kinjo was the one who uploaded it and both anon-kun and I were able to download it. Other people randomly seem to have the same problem while others don't.

I suggest you try again, although just in case I did upload it somewhere else.

FileDropper:
http://www.filedropper.com/viprotgwpart1
http://www.filedropper.com/viprotgwpart2

>>9013
Can't seem to get either of them to work. The Mediafire links both give me the error about not being able to download split archives. The first Filedropper one seems to be acting strangely as it can't tell how big the file is, though it does at least appear to be downloading something; the second one won't even load the webpage at all.

>>9014
Hm, never mind, I got the Mediafire link to work after posting that. Seems to be completely random whether it works or not.

>>9015
Did you finish the game now?

>>9016
About to start now, actually~

Mi, finished. Here are the notes I made as I was playing. (Huge spoilers, obviously~)

-The part with Kyrie took me by surprise, since I happened to miss that part when Anon was streaming. I'm glad you actually made it into a closed room this time.

-For the final version, you might want to include some reminder of the 'No one born of a woman may harm the detective' thing, since Kinjo suddenly mentions the C-section birth out of the blue during his review and it probably wouldn't make sense to people who hadn't read the original.

-I took about six attempts on the part where you have to choose what to focus on before I just gave up and extracted the script to see what the right answers were. I think the requirements on this part definitely need to be toned down.

-Also, I don't even know how to describe my reaction when I saw that picking the black thread actually gives you a point~

-There was a part where Erika used Dlanor's speech pattern (capitalising the last word); also there was a part where Kinjo had Erika's scythe but I assume you already caught that.

-It's sort of a shame that you abbreviated the last part of the battle over Rudolf's room, even if you did make Kinjo look less incompetent. I enjoyed some of his theories there, like his magnets accidentally activating the trap. Maybe you could try to incorporate the cut parts of this battle into the previous one somehow?

-Another typo: Rosa says "Where are the Battler and Rudolf?"

-After seeing that choosing Rosa's alibi gave a point, I thought there was a good chance that she was the culprit somehow, but it wasn't so, and my first choice failed.

-You might want some warnings to the player to save at certain points; I did it anyway, of course, but it would be annoying to lose a lot of progress after guessing wrong.

-...

-Ahaha

-Was I actually right about Berune?

-Really?

-I should really have had more faith in myself.

-I love how Kinjo is saying exactly what I did

-Wait what, since when did he have theatergoing authority?

-Sheesh did I seriously guess the entire backstory without realising

-Yay, dreamenddischarger

-Well I was wrong about Kinzo at least

-...They weren't killed in the servant's room after all? Really?

-Hm, so Kinzo dying the same day as George and Yasu was really just a coincidence? Man, I really put too much thought into that part.

-Still not really sure why Genji wanted to cover things up by hiding the bodies...Krauss wanting to hide his embezzlement was so freaking obvious though, I really should have got that instead of having to introduce a blackmail conspiracy over hiding Kinzo's death.

-Ah, they were DIFFERENT boxes, huh? Upon hearing that I almost thought for a second that the box changing size was actually a hint before I realised that was the same box regardless.

-Quite a lot of typos to iron out here, but that's to be expected since you were rushing to get it out for Anon to play.

-...Hidden door behind Beatrice's portrait!? Was this ever hinted anywhere?

-Well, I guess you don't really need to know where or how the gold was hidden to solve the game.

-Berune making the uryuu sound

-wedding you out

-Well that ironing board sure was super convenient

-OH MY GOSH THE OLD DISGUISE THEORY WAS RIGHT WHAT IS THIS

-Also pretty sure this breaks Knox's 10th unless I'm forgetting something

-Wait, what!? Where the heck did the freaking small bombs come from!?

-Eeeh, the thing with Berune sneaking past Genji was kind of cheap.

-Still not sure about the thing with setting the chain from outside, but I guess the door being older than the others was meant to hint at it? It's honestly kind of unnecessary from the culprit's PoV, considering that the normal lock would be sufficient to make it a closed room even without the chain. But just using a master key would have been an awfully boring solution.

-Wait, Jessica didn't place the second letter? Berune did? What is this I don't even

-The clock in the study was an hour ahead? Not even sure what significance that has.

-Did you leave your post at all for any time at all? Wow Battler you could run the redundancy department of redundancy department.

-Uh, that seems unbelievably psychic of Berune to know Natushi would go and burn the documents. What's that about?

-The thing with Erika escaping from the storage room is actually a really neat hint for Natsuhi's murder.

-I don't really get why Berune bothers killing Krauss and Natsuhi...just in case they told the others something I guess? But after hearing Krauss lie to Kinjo she didn't really need to worry about that any more. I guess she was just being overcautious?

-It's also quite clever how the servant's outfits in the cupboards are hints to a way for a servant to avoid people noticing blood on their clothes.

->I thrust me knife
I'm always going to imagine Berune speaking like this from now on

-So the thing with the radio really was completely pointless. Pretty much as expected.

-BY BEELZEBUB HERSELF

-Oh man hahahaha that last line

-Battler going to see Nanjo

-That's pretty great actually

-Lol at the answer to the missing hammer

-Yeah that was a pretty great ending actually.

Well, on the whole I have to say that was awesome. It's been great speculating about this game all this time and the fact that I was so close to actually getting the answer myself shows that the game really wasn't too hard after all. To be honest I think the only real flaws with the solution are:

a) That you ended up making Ruon so suspicious (presumably mostly by accident?). I think anyone who though to suspect a servant would undoubtedly have gone for her since she was definitely more suspicious than Berune throughout the game. So I think that Kinjo would have definitely needed the red about Ruon's innocence in order to have a chance at getting the solution on the first try. (Although the ingenious misdirection for Krauss and Natsuhi's murders would probably have led him to go for a mysterious person outside of the group anyway)

b) The culprit magically having small bombs wasn't justified at all as far as I can tell, and I'm pretty sure Berune disguising as Ruon breaks a Knox rule as I said earlier. The thing with her sneaking into the guesthouse was also somewhat cheap and I probably wouldn't have given up on my theory if it hadn't been for that. But I guess that you wouldn't have mentioned that Genji was distracted at one point if it hadn't meant anything, so that's probably my fault.

But yes, overall, I have to complement both of you on your great work, and I'm still surprised that I almost solved it without realising. It must have been difficult not to tell me I'd actually got the right answer despite my constant self-deprecation, haha. Wish I'd been in the stream when the answer was revealed, my reaction probably would really have been amusing. I'd definitely say this is probably my favourite fan gameboard, though that might be because it's the first one I put any significant amount of time into. I'm sure plenty of people will be impressed when you polish it for a public release. Nipa~

Ugh. My lack of experience confounds me again. I can get the damned thing to run, but Kinjo's sprites are missing, and the damned game crashes as soon as I start playing riddles on the boat. I can't wait to see what our big slip-ups were though.

>>9019
If sprites are missing, I would assume that you put the Repercussion subfolder in the wrong folder.

It should go in the "Umineko8" folder, the same place where you installed the English translation, as shown in this screen.

>>9018
-Rosa's alibi gives you a point
That was never intended, must have been miscommunication between Kinjo and I.

-no warning about saving
We had planned to actually. I noticed a lot of things never got done unless we made sure to do it right as we talked about it.

Yes, the theatergoing authority was just a desu ex. Hence why we need a final version. The part where Kinjo solves it and the very end after the POV I intended to rewrite.

-"Still not really sure why Genji wanted to cover things up by hiding the bodies."
Almost all of what Genji did was a order before Kinzo's death. I will make sure to elaborate for final version.

--...Hidden door behind Beatrice's portrait!? Was this ever hinted anywhere?
You are right, it wasn't really important to find. The half finished epitaph in the box did mention a hint about eyes, and as we know Kinjo felt a strange draw to those portraits.

--Eeeh, the thing with Berune sneaking past Genji was kind of cheap.
I noticed in the stream you thought Manon and Genji met outside, but it stated that they met inside right in front of the lobby doors. Again, maps help to point this out.

--The clock in the study was an hour ahead? Not even sure what significance that has.
It works with the alibis for the first night. If you notice Natsuhi and Krauss both ordered drinks at the same time. So there alibis were off by one hour.

--Uh, that seems unbelievably psychic
It wasn't elaborated very well since the 1986 POV turned into third person. In any case Berune had enough knowledge to know Natsuhi and Krauss would do such a thing to not be found. I'll make sure to explain more for final version.

--BY BEELZEBUB HERSELF
Actually if you read this line from the text.
"The whole floor is gone and everything that was in it has fallen into the fiery utility room that the devil himself would be proud of."
Me and anon had a good laugh at that part.

-suspicious Ruon
To be honest I thought since she was so suspicious it would be obvious I wouldn't make her the culprit. And the alibi Battler and Genji got from Ruon being seen in the morning was no joke. If acting by herself then it would have made it impossible for her to commit the crimes.

-small bombs
Yeah, I had a scene with the cousins playing in the forest and Berune being the Satako of the group that was never added. making traps etc. I'll have to add that in. Although to be fair you can easily make a bomb that can blow off a door with cleaning supplies.

Finally the issue with Knox's 10th; Black Thread... yeah. Also Kinjo would have gotten another scene hinted at it if he had talked to Jessica after second Battler fight.


Anyway glad you liked it so much, thanks for waiting so long for the answer!

>>9019
Like Rika-Beatrice said that's all I can think of. If still doesn't work Kinjo may know.

Decided to go through the incorrect theories in the tea party for the heck of it; I found quite a few typos and bugs, some of which disrupted the flow quite significantly. I know you've probably fixed some stuff yourself since the last release, but I decided to do a quick patch so that these errors will be fixed for those who play this version.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51787988/nscript.dat

Just replace the nscript.dat in the RotGW folder with this one and they should be fixed.

Here's a list, for Kinjo and Ozaki's use:
First twilight
[There is no closed room]
-"immediately destroyed but the torrential downpour"
-"both the chain and deadbolt was set"

[Eva's fallen corpse locked the window]
-Erika said "A better theory"; this means that it's better than some previous theory, which is awkward if the player happens to pick this one first. Changed it to "a decent theory".

Second twilight
-Erika said "Let's see if you can do any better this time around"; awkward if the player succeeded on the first twilight. I just removed this line.
[Drink was poisoned from the outside]
-Changed that "successively" to "successfully" of course.
-Kinjo asks if asking for another definition will cost him some of his white hair; this is awkward if the option that caused him to lose some of it wasn't chosen on the first twilight, so I removed this line.
-Fixed a misplaced speech mark on the line that starts "Very well. All of the bottles were left over..."
-And another one on the next line.
-On the same line, "of course it wasn't inside study" - added a "the".
[Someone in the room poisoned Krauss]
-Added an opening speech mark to the "in this game only humans can kill" line.
-The line about "if I wasn't restricted to these rules, I would've won by now" refers to Kinjo's particular position in the real battle; it's irrelevant here, so I removed it. On the same screen, it moves on to Kinjo's line without a closing speech mark or even a keypress.
[Krauss died from the broken glass]
-Added an opening speech mark to the first line.

Third twilight
[Natsuhi trigged the gun]
-Added an opening speech mark to the first line.
-Removed the "That's one blue down" line since it's not necessarily the first option that the player will choose.
[Culprit was hiding and killed her]
-Got rid of Erika speaking in blue on the first screen.
-Removed an unnecessary speech mark after "I'm sure you know better by now".
-Added an opening speech mark to the line starting "When they found the gun Battler had already tugged..."
-http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2076/36981302.png I think this speaks for itself.
-Removed an unnecessary speech mark after "Oh, and by the way..."
[Fatal injury came from outside room]
-Erika speaks in blue on this one too. On the line starting "Oh? Well then by all means..." There's also a missing speech mark preceding it.
-Added an opening speech mark to the line starting "The gunshot everyone heard..."
-And to the screen after that.
[Timed mechanism locked the door]
-"How would have the culprit"
-Added an opening speech mark to the line starting "Is there any problem with..."

Fourth twilight
[Culprit entered and left through the window]
-"The culprit...leaves again through the window." Present tense seems odd here; changed it to past.

Fifth twilight is fine, presumably since it was written specifically for the game.

Sixth twilight
-"Regardless of the last murder, I'm sure this will be more difficult!" Again, this was only relevant to Kinjo's particular situation having just solved the last one in one try. Should be removed here.
[Culprit hid in the utility room]
-Added an opening speech mark to the line starting "It's possible the culprit hid..."
-And to the following line.
-And the one after that.
-And the one after that.
-And the one after that.
-And the one after that.
[Fatal injury was in the lobby]
-Added an opening speech mark to the line starting "Rudolf was not stabbed..."
[Culprit hid in the basement]
-Added an opening speech mark to the line starting "When Rudolf was killed the basement..."
-And to the following line.
-And to the one after that.
[Culprit hid on the first floor]
-There's no keypress between Kinjo and Erika's lines, on the line starting "Hold it!"
[Culprit was killed via a trap]
-Added an opening speech mark to the first line.
-Removed the part where he says "Sixth theory". Obviously there is no way of knowing whether this is the player's sixth theory.
-There's also no keypress between Kinjo and Erika's lines, on the same screen.
-Removed an unnecessary speech mark before "Sure, one may have caused the fire".

>>9021
Ah, that must have been me misunderstanding about Genji's meeting Manon. I must have just assumed it was outside because it said "right in front of the guesthouse"; that and the alibi would be sort of useless otherwise (which I guess it was, haha).

That's a fair point about Genji seeing Ruon exit her room, although personally I just took the fact that she was in the guesthouse at all despite Genji's constant watch as proof that he was working with her somehow. I really should have questioned my assumptions on this...

...And, hahahaha, that was what the black thread was?! I never even thought of that, that's great. You should probably throw in a line about that in the epilogue, it deserves to be noted.

Graaagh. I got it to work finally... But it's the first version, no tea-party access. I'm gonna try removing it and re-installing, see how far the route of trial and error gets me.

I'm getting an 'unexpected end of archive' error whenever I try to unzip the second version with the tea party included. Looks like I might just end up sitting this one out...

>>9024
You are extracting BOTH part1 and part2, right?

Yo, random lurker giving his opinion.

Huh I fared better than expected. Pointed at the right culprit, but my reaction was pretty much like ingame Kinjo: "Holy shit i was actually right." I mainly had doubts because I somehow misinterpreted how Genji staying up throughout the night worked and that there was room for Berune to sneak back in the morning before Ruon woke her up to go help Gohda in the kitchen. And it seemed to not explain a lot of other things so while my Who and Why were spot on I couldn't see the How and dismissed it too quickly. (which is funny because I suspected both her and Gohda because of those drinks in the night and the rigged grandfather clock, basically how either of them could have some messed up alibi because of time discrepancies.) Shouldn't have doubted myself and just given it a shot with a theory, probably would've have gotten a few things right at least.

Also I didn't know you could fail during the part where you have to focus on the right things. Man, those choices seemed so pseudo interactive to me but okay then. Speaking of, making that whole tea party battle against Erika actually interactive was pretty neat. (of course not that hard given the amount of allowed screwups and limited multiple choices compared to real theorizing, but hey it's never wrong to add some interactivity.)

...and then this silly C-Section issue made me doubt myself so much I accused Rosa first before getting it right. Damn overthinking. Speaking of, going back and randomly accusing wrong people was fun. But not as fun as it was in Kinjo's 3rd game because here it's somewhat more copy-paste and short for many of them.

Overall an entertaining read. Thanks for this.
All it needs is a little bit polishing but you're already aware of that it seems. It's presentable but the writing seemed a little rushed here and there.

...My only regret is that I wasn't able to beat Maria in that minigame.

>>9025
Yup. Redownloaded them both, tried to extract them. Also says bgm7 in the custom folder is corrupted now. Giving it one more try before I curl up and die.

>>9022
Wow. That was pleasantly surprising. Will probably use that, thanks.

>>9027
Have you gotten it working yet? Really hope you can read it like the others.

>>9026
Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad you enjoyed the game!
Speaking of accusing wrong people, I had actually written 400-600 words for each suspect explaining why exactly they couldn't be the culprit along with 3 reds confirming it as well as helping to solve other parts of the mystery if a player was stuck. Kinjo dimmed it down because we ran out of time and we felt this seacats version didn't need it.

>>9023
Just to check, you realise that the tea party isn't available until you finish the main game, right?

If you downloaded from the most recent link I can't see how you would have somehow gotten it so that it worked fine but didn't have the tea party.

>>9029
Okay, here's my situation. If I download the first version (the one without the teaparty), and set that up as normal, everything works fine. If I download the second one, all the custom sprites are missing, and I get those error messages I mentioned earlier.

I thought I'd be clever and try merging the two folders together. After all, the sprites work in the original one. But no, that just gives me the normal game without the teaparty. I'm running into brick wall after brick wall here.

>>9030
Try this: http://www.4shared.com/rar/GBFGIoW4/VIP_RotGW.html

It's a single folder containing everything. It has a slightly more updated nscripter.dat, fixing various typos. (I haven't put anything from Rika's nscript.dat in it yet)

Much obliged, Kinjo, the whole thing is working now. Struggling my way through the 'focus' section at the moment, like everyone else, I'll give some feedback once I've finished this up.

Okay, so I finally finished it just a moment ago, I know well I'm too damn late, sorry, makes me feel kinda bad to be thanked as a beta tester when I didn't actually bother with it until now because of laziness.

So, I gotta say, I should have guessed it waaaay sooner.
The biggest mistake I made I think was that I didn't notice that there was a moment when Genji wasn't looking. That should have tipped me off like hell because otherwise it'd have been unnecessary, still is a cheap trick though.
The clock thing completely passed over my head as well. Overall, I feel like I knew where the string were cut but unable in any way to tie them back together.

For the backstory.... eh...
I dunno, already seeing George so out of character was jarring, but overall, the "love" business felt sorta cheesy and like it wasn't needed, I mean it's a reasonable and understandable motive, but it's just... there...
Well, it is original, and it stands firm as an explanation, that suffice.

What I really liked was the whole embezzling business with the boxes, which in my opinion was really smart, gotta hand it to you here, Ozaki.


In the end, it did feel smaller than what I had expected, but I really enjoyed it. A shame I delayed it so much. Also a shame Maria is freaking invincible at snowball fights for some reason. Congrats to you Ozaki, and Kinjo too of course, that must have been a lot of work.
It makes me pumped to revive my project, but I'm just too lazy for that.
And sorry to have been so late.

>>9174
Don't feel too bad about it. You helped to beta test the mystery more than the VN.
Anyway, I'm glad you liked it. Shame to hear about your project however, hopefully you'll find some motivation later. /gameboard/ is pretty barren etc.

>>9174

Maria is actually trivial to beat. What you want to do is move to the top of the screen, get her to follow you, and then start moving gradually down while spamming snowballs at her. When you get to the bottom, move back to the top as quickly as possible. Her vertical movement is much worse than her horizontal movement.

Contrary to expectations, you want to be as close to Maria as possible. She can only fire snowballs from her top half so it's free hits and she's always firing over you if you're constantly moving below her.

I managed to actually lock her up and she never moved again while I was underneath her, allowing me to just throw snowballs at her legs until I won. I suppose that's a bug.

>>9255
Yeah, it's kind of a bug, but I don't really mind. Every boss fight needs that one game-breaking strategy, etc.

>>9261

What actually happens if you lose to her anyway? I managed to figure out the strategy on my first readthrough and then locked her up on the second, so I wasn't sure whether there were any extra details from losing (or from winning).

Although to be honest I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to details to begin with. This backfired a time or two.

But I do have one question: Who starts a fire upstairs? In a building where everybody's downstairs? In the winter? When there's two stories of snow? How can somebody so good at speed-dressing and window installation be so bad at arson?

Oh actually looking back over it, it was started on the first floor. I was confused by that because Kinjo at one point matter-of-factly says otherwise but is wrong, but in the guessing section if he suggests the first floor that suggestion is wrong. Go figure.

>>9267
Heh.

Also, there's only a bit of dialogue change if you lose. It doesn't affect anything.

It's still kind of a bad idea. I mean, it ultimately didn't even wind up actually killing anybody. Rudolf's death was more of a remarkable coincidence than anything caused by the fire.

At what point was the guesthouse bomb detonated anyway, and how? Was it a timer? Why was it set for what seemed like twelve-plus hours? How could anyone have predicted where the sequence of events would have progressed from that point, especially given the unintended necessity of hiding in an igloo all night? The boiler bomb had to be manually triggered so there would be no way to know when that would've happened.

(re: Boiler Room)
How was the boiler room bomb supposed to work out? What if it didn't knock anybody out? What if it caused a large part of the house to collapse? What if it collapsed the way to the gold or knocked the portraits down? There was already enough trouble with two people escaping and confronting the culprit immediately. The plan seems to have been to knock out or kill whoever she could and stab the rest, except several people actually ended up cut off which could've ruined everything (and basically did).

(re: Harming the Detective)
Also I think this was addressed in some of the commentary in the original thread, but how did Kinjo get stabbed when the red said he couldn't be harmed? There was also some Macbeth-level speculation about Maria and c-sections and such but Maria wasn't the attacker and there was never any evidence to suggest the culprit was born in that manner. Not even in her own flashbacks.

But even if that were true, how would Battler have been able to strike him during the guesthouse fight? Was Battler ALSO born from a c-section? Wouldn't Kyrie have noticed that? They wouldn't have delivered a stillborn baby by c-section. Was anyone on the island NOT born by c-section?

Jessica hit Kinjo but didn't cause actual harm, which also seems like an overly literal invocation of the red. In fact, I actually took that as a clue when it apparently wasn't.

(re: Battler's Theories)
When and why did Battler stop thinking Kinjo was the culprit? He doesn't appear to actually know who the culprit is until she reveals herself. Granted, Battler should've already guessed Kinjo wasn't the culprit because he couldn't have caused Krauss's death and Battler was Kinjo's alibi for that (and vice-versa).

When did Battler actually pick up that gold bar? Was he carrying it around the entire time, including during the fight with Kinjo (that's quite a handicap!)? Did he rush off back to the mansion first? How long did that take? How did nobody see him? Why didn't he suggest the tunnels first thing? The culprit didn't actually prepare for that eventuality, and if he thought Kinjo was the culprit he could be relatively certain Kinjo would have no way to do anything untoward because Kinjo had no idea the tunnels existed.

(re: Cause of Death Three Years Ago)
It was stated that the victims were all shot in the back of the head. All three of them. This seems improbable.

1) Yasu "took the bullet" for George, which necessitates being aware of the bullet, which suggests she'd be facing it. Granted, the photograph/report says half her face was gone, but in that case I question the conclusion made that her death was from a shot to the "back of the head."

2) Why did George turn his back to someone who had a gun and had just shot at him? I can accept this one if he was shot execution-style while collapsed and crying over Yasu's body but it still seems awfully convenient.

3) How did nobody notice the manner in which Erika escaped the shed? Did she put the window BACK? How did Berune get her to turn around, since she apparently had to talk to her first which would suggest they were facing each other? How did Berune even find her in time, and why didn't anyone notice she was also missing during that time (Battler noticed Yasu was missing, why didn't anyone notice another servant was too)? Why throw her body in the ocean when you could just leave it in the forest? Rokkenjima is much more inhospitable in its interior than it is on its beaches, and corpses float.

(re: The Gold)
Why didn't Genji ever notice that some of the gold was disappearing from the gold room? It was sitting on a table, so it's not like it was hidden from sight. Although she claims that "The fools will never know the gold was even there," we know at the very least that Genji and Krauss knew. The original plan did not require anyone be killed so they would've eventually realized this.

Moreover, why DIDN'T she just escape with half the gold as she suggested? What was the hurry? Actually, what was the hurry under the current circumstances? She didn't know a detective was coming when Krauss announced his family gathering. Neither did Krauss, in fact. Even then, Krauss wasn't inclined to cooperate with any detective. One holiday a year wouldn't do anything to her plans to smuggle the gold bit by bit when nobody is around. It might slow it down but as long as she always waits for everyone to be absent (which should happen often enough) she'll never be caught, and nobody can just confront her about the gold because they don't know she knows it exists, and won't have any on her person any time she isn't supposed to.

She might have been concerned about somebody else finding it, but that would actually make her situation better as it would throw any suspicion on the discoverer and the fact that a bunch of the gold was missing wouldn't be an easy subject to raise under the circumstances.

"Oh yeah, we were hiding a bunch of gold from everybody. But actually there was even more of it and it's missing somehow, help us find it! Honest!"

It's not like you can report it to the police. That gold is completely illegal. Once Berune has it off the island, it's effectively impossible for them to get it back.

I had a pet theory that I came up with but I hadn't paid enough attention to all of the reds so I was fairly sure it was contradicted at some point or just plain impossible due to logistics. I was primarily confused by the use of different sprites for Battler and Jessica and thought something was going on there.

Also why was Erika even in the story anyway? To make them not like detectives because they're jerks who cut people's heads off? Well, Kinjo sure didn't do anything to dispel THAT.

>>9282

First off, shame on you Kinjo telling people it was complete, I had to edit the main website. Just so you know.

Guesthouse event
Yes it was a timer. She was been over-cautious as she never planned to use it if the first one worked, simply to burn down anything in case she failed. If the power all went out in the mansion then it would only make sense to go to the guesthouse. Of course even then I agree the timing was a bit much. In the thread version of the game Kinjo just sat around for a long time until it went off.

Boiler Room
Like you said it was poorly planned the explosives. Not every culprit is a genius mastermind and not every mystery goes as planned. This whole game was literally a repercussion. The point you bring up about the portraits and gold is interesting however assuming you looked at the maps it would have shown that the boiler room's back door is close to the back of the house. Of course these were not in the game as stated in the thread. Although I think I shall add a boiler room map just to be safe since that idea was interesting.

Harming the Detective
You are right I simply forgot to elaborate on that part. Probably because it was a red herring. Kinjo took it out of the teaparty for programming reasons I guess. However it really needs to be added back in since the scene with Jessica not hurting Kinjo was a way to confirm Jessica wasn't a culprit if someone didn't trust her for whatever silly reason. I guess that 'ears started to ring' would make people think Kinjo was getting hurt eh? Thanks for point that one out.

Battler's Theories
"Did he rush off back to the mansion first?" yes he did. I should make sure to tell the reader that. After Kinjo goes back to the board he wrote the scenes excluding the actually part where the answer is explained.

Cause of Death Three Years Ago
1) This is the first point I can honestly say I messed up. I will have to change that to match the records.

2)"Shot while collapsed and crying over Yasu's body" That is what happened

3)She DID put the window back. Turning around never seemed like a problem thanks for bring that up. Seems I forgot to mention people started looking for her by splitting up (stupid thing to do). Desu ex for how Berune found her. She threw her into the ocean because she thought it would be better than leaving it in the forest.

The Gold
Assuming you got the newest version then I have to assume the part explaining that Genji was finished the night Berune found it was never added. As other people have pointed out some things that Kinzo told Genji to do were not obvious so I will make sure to add a part explaining everything he was told. Also Krauss never knew about the gold.

She was simply too greedy.
Until Kinjo showed up she wasn't in a hurry at all. I didn't think someone would think she was in a hurry. She waited all this time, she had a lot of patience. When Battler found the gold there were only a few bars left. I'll have to explain that. For the rest you are right it may have gone better if she didn't do anything. She was panicking.

Erika was added on whim. No other reason.

Anyway thanks for the feedback. Shame you had to read the semi-complete version. I had planned to fix everything before telling anyone other than seacats since they could read the thread version. Sorry about that.

>>9285

(Guesthouse)
Random idea, not something you have to go with: Where did Battler go to get the radio? That'd be in the servant room/utility room, right? He could bring Berune with him perhaps, and she could trigger it then. Would probably require timing tomfoolery but at least then she would be setting it off relatively close to when it's needed.

(Boiler Room)
It might help to have Berune mention that she's confident no matter how bad the boiler explosion is, it won't disrupt the portrait/tunnel because they're far enough away. That'll allow it to be explained away as a calculated risk. Personally I think it a bit implausible imagining the layout of the house as the VN suggests, but your maps trump what the game "appears" to show.

(Harming Detective)
It's probably a little late to change this detail, but couldn't you do something to make Kinjo's injury self-inflicted in some unforseen manner? Hitting some debris while getting up, struggling with the culprit in the dark and accidentally stabbing himself, that sort of thing. All a bit silly, but somehow it seems a little less silly than "oh yeah c-section."

As for Battler, at some points in the fight it's clear he isn't doing actual harm to Kinjo but in others it's not really stated clearly enough and it APPEARS he is doing so. That ought to be clarified.

Also, why would Jessica being unable to harm Kinjo prove her trustworthy? It wouldn't matter if the culprit could or couldn't harm the detective inasmuch as it doesn't stop them from harming anyone ELSE. And Berune did try to harm Kinjo using the trap in his room and failed due to convenient red-obeying circumstances, but it didn't stop her from killing others.

(Battler's Theories)
One possibility I considered for this: Battler could notice something that convinces him of Kinjo's innocence while checking the tunnel behind the portrait. Specifically, you could say that he actually found the tunnel/gold room sooner, but was quick to leave because he didn't want to be seen in there. Then when he ran back to check the tunnels' integrity and make sure they could still be used, he noticed some of the gold bars were missing (Berune perhaps could've stolen a couple extra in her panic to get away). At that point he knows the culprit's motive is gold-related and that Kinjo cannot be the culprit because Kinjo never had any opportunity to get at the gold and wouldn't have any way of knowing it exists. He just wouldn't know WHO ELSE had found the gold, so he couldn't know the identity of the culprit.

(Cause of Death)
What I'd suggest is that only George's death be ruled out as a suicide (via the execution-style murder) and if necessary have the notion of a Yasu-George murder-suicide ruled out by a red confirmation. This will serve as a hint to George dying second and the manner of his death could be suggestive of how he died.

For Erika's death it's easy to make her turn around if you were to write out the actual dialogue bits between Berune and Erika. Either have Erika be wrong about the solution or right but open to being bribed over it. Berune basically just has to convince her to turn around to go someplace (perhaps telling her about Kuwadorian), then shoot her in the back of the head as she walks/runs away. Alternately Erika could just try to run and get shot, or cut the dialogue and move that info elsewhere and have Berune hunt her down like an animal.

Also, WHY did Erika put the window back? Wasn't she trying to get away? Why does she care if people knew how she got out?

(Gold)
So Genji never actually checked on the gold again after he finished moving all of it? That just seems odd considering he and Krauss now have it CLOSER and EASIER to get to.

My issue with her hurry is it seems to be somewhat temporally disconnected from the events that might cause her to panic. Because she is patient, the announcement of the family meeting should not be the impetus to hurry. After all, the goal of the family gathering is to bury the past so people are unlikely to start discussing the epitaph since that's how George ended up dead. So she shouldn't be at all worried anyone will stumble upon the gold then.

The ideal time for her to start to panic is when Kinjo (1) shows up and (2) announces his intention to investigate the crime and that he got a letter about it. This would rightly convince her (as it does) that someone is actually trying to get to the bottom of things. This is already pretty much established in the story so I'd just remove any suggestion that she's in any way concerned before that point.

Slightly more difficult is that she intends to kill Kinjo if he gets too nosy, but at this point she seems to have no need or desire to kill anyone else (since doing so would exponentially increase the risk of being found out). She kind of jumps too quickly at the letter as impetus to kill everyone. Why does she immediately want to kill Krauss, who is UPSET about the letter and incredibly uncooperative with Kinjo? Wanting to kill Krauss when he reveals information to Battler and Kinjo makes sense, but jumping to that thought immediately seems a bit much. The other deaths can basically be murders of convenience or risk management, so there's no real issue there, but she premeditates Krauss's death a little early considering he's actually helping her out indirectly.

>>9287
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that Genji never told Krauss about the gold, and he didn't intend to show anyone where it was unless they solved the epitaph. So, I don't think it's that unrealistic to think that he wouldn't have bothered going to check the gold periodically.

I thought Krauss and Natsuhi were pretty weird choices to kill as well, considering that they were trying to cover things up anyway. Killing them to stop them revealing more information would have made more sense if it hadn't been Berune herself who placed the letter that encouraged Krauss to show Kinjo the extra information in the first place!

Regarding the thing about 'no child born of a woman can harm the detective', I kind of think that it might be better just to remove that rule entirely? It doesn't seem to do much for the story, and the parts where it comes into play can be easily edited out since they're pretty irrelevant. (Jessica's innocence should be easy to determine without that hint...)

It actually does say that he didn't mention the gold, which I misread; even so, it's a bit silly to think Genji could move it all to a nearby room and not have Krauss ever notice that. Did he have a forklift handy or something?

And why move the gold anywhere at all if no one knew about it? It seems like he was moving things twice somehow, but I'm not sure of the purpose of moving it to a close location if he was never going to bother checking on it again.

Likewise, if Genji did know about the gold and was the only one who did, Berune should want to kill him first and foremost. She might not have the CHANCE until later in the story, but the first person that should spring to her mind to kill in order to cover up her theft is the one person who knows where the gold is.

Her first thought should be something along the lines of "Shit, somebody is on to me. I gotta off this detective and Genji, and then figure out who's trying to smoke me out and take care of them too." Hell, for all she knows it was Genji who sent the letter because he noticed some gold missing, she has no way to know for sure. But it's more reasonable to assume than "Man, Krauss hates the detective and wants nothing to do with him right now. I better kill him! You know, before he... doesn't... help."

>>9291
Wasn't the gold hidden in a secret room behind Beatrice's portrait? It's not like he just moved it to some random room where Krauss could find it. And I seem to remember the text mentioning that Genji moved the gold on a day when the family was absent because they were taking a vacation or something, so Krauss wouldn't have seen him moving it.

Though you're right, it does still seem like a big job to do it only on days when the family aren't around - this is basically exactly the same thing Berune does later, and it takes her years, so Genji seems to have got it there remarkably quickly.

You're right that Genji probably should have been a priority to kill; not that it's really NECESSARY, but neither was killing any of the others honestly, and Genji would have made more sense than most.

This is the part I'm referring to from the script:

bg sub_r1c,24
`In the morning, the other people on the island noticed that George and the two servants had gone missing.`@` Soon enough, a search began, and Genji headed to the gold room under the assumption that it had been solved.`\

ld l,gen_defa1,24
`Genji immediately hid the gold in a nearby room, and then planned to hide Yasu's body too.`\

ld l,gen_odorokia1,0
ld r,kla_komarua1,24
`However, Krauss had followed him, and Genji was forced to explain.`@` He said nothing about the gold, but admitted the truth about Yasu.`@` It was because of this that Krauss was able to become the head of the family.`\

Apparently Genji was able to move all the gold out of the "gold room" (which, one presumes, is where the gold actually is) before Krauss could follow him and discover the murders.

Personally I would not even move the gold; what I'd do is say Genji moved the CORPSES, because moving the gold in such a short amount of time seems like a ridiculous endeavor. Also then maybe he could move the gold later, slowly, although personally I'm not sure I see the point exactly if nobody's found it yet. The passage behind the portrait already connects to the old gold room and the tunnels, so I don't see why the gold needs to go anywhere as long as Genji prevents anyone from finding it the first time. Berune is going to find it no matter where it happens to be once she knows the passages exist. Moving it adds the needless complication of Genji now having intimate recollection of exactly how many bars there are, where he might actually overlook some bars being slowly stolen from the back of the stacks if the gold remains where it always was. And if he eventually stops checking, then once the piles get really low nobody will have seen that yet. But Battler might, when he finds it himself.

The other issue would be that he installed or implemented this portrait passage at some point and was using it frequently enough for Berune to notice it, even though the gold would only be moving around WITHIN the tunnels; it shouldn't have ever left. That's not wholly implausible by any means, but I'm not sure why that passage was there. If it's just "Kinzo had the passage installed by order before dying, so Genji decided to start using it because it was more convenient" that's perfectly fine, just make sure that gets clarified when all the other Kinzo stuff is brought up.

I need mirror links. The place where this file is uploaded either hates the country where I'm trying to download this or it just hates me. Can someone upload the file in like 3 parts to mediafire or something please?
Thanks.

>>11421
So you tried these ones then? I can upload another version later if these didn't work for you.

http://www.mediafire.com/?4p64319oo6aj1e8
http://www.mediafire.com/?0vc57rghqs36s6g

http://www.4shared.com/rar/GBFGIoW4/VIP_RotGW.html

Since this is already bumped I guess I'll just post a friendly reminder for anyone who haven't read the novel yet.

-The game is not 100% complete, however it is presentable. The mystery is intact so if you can ignore a few sprite errors and some poor writing in parts then it should be fine.
-This thread basically contains the whole truth. Most of it is spoiled in the black boxes but its rather easy to catch a glimpse. So until you know the truth from reading the novel make sure to stay clear of those if you want to attempt to solve it. Of course that should be obvious by now.

Expect the final version some time in the future once I get the time.

Yeah, mediafire works just fine. I'll be sure to leave my two cents about it when I'm done.

I think I've pretty much finished the game, except in the ??? it keeps repeating right after the point where Kinjo recollects and summarizes everything that he's been through and you're giving the option to pick (i think) whatever was unclear/important. Like I get to the end and BAM. It starts again at Ruons' flashback. I doubt it's an error, I probably just have to select the options in a particular order but I just can't see what it could be.

>>11439
In that section you need to pick a point from each list, a point which you feel there is more to then meets the eye. For example picking the maid in the hallway obviously is something that hasn't been explained. It counts as a point. There is more than one correct answer for each list too. I believe you need more than 70% to pass.

If you want here is one possible way to get past that section. Think of it like a cheat sheet.

http://pastebin.com/hsyNjEFG

Oh and make sure to save after that part, it will save you a lot of time.

One word, brilliant.
I loved it.
The only thing that kinda ticked me off was the red: because of the snow there is no way to get to the guesthouse or mansion without using the path genji made
That really doesn't make sense to me. Nobody should be able to get inside the guesthouse or the mansion if they can't 'get' to it unless they use the path Genji made. I made so many assumptions based on the fact that the culprit couldn't move without being seen by people.
Meh, I'm not going to complain. You killed my boredom for a couple of days, thank you. I look forward to Kinjo's revenge.

>>11446
Yeah, I think that's the part that got most of us. I actually almost solved the whole thing but gave up on my theory because of that part. Well, I can't really take much credit for that since half the game was already solved for me by Kinjo before the VN even existed.

It's kinda unfair, but it does also make some kind of sense, in that you can theoretically 'get to' the guesthouse without actually entering it. Of course, the problem with that kind of wordplay is that the red statement itself is rendered somewhat pointless if you can bypass it like that.

Kinjo's redemption game is already over, if you didn't already know. It's probably worth waiting for the VN version regardless. Ozaki solved the forum version a little too easily; kind of killed the drama really.

Since I was a bit too lazy to think about a lot while reading this, I didn't end up overthinking like I usually do and didn't get confused by the other problems. But this. How do you get inside a place without getting TO a place? The whole point was that Berune entered through the backdoor. The getting TO the Mansion/Guesthouse bit was clearly denied by the red. The only thing that wasn't was getting INSIDE the building.
I'm probably just not seeing something here. Oh yeah, and I remembered another bit that bugged me, how did Berune know for sure that Natsuhi would just go rush to her room out of the blue to burn some documents? It just seemed.. off.
And I'm still curious about the new epitaph, if Ozaki did complete it, I'd want to read it. It seemed cool.

Oh and about Kinjo's game, do you have the link to it's thread by any chance? I'd like to read it.

>>11446
>>11448
Regardless of Genji the red only means you have to have used that snow path to go between each building. It was the readers who interpreted it as denied.
The rest of your questions are already answered in the thread. You can go back through and read them.

Also Kinjo's Redemption: https://archive.seacats.net/gameboard/res/8899.html

>>11447
Most of the drama was behind the scenes. For example, semi redemption spoilers: I basically caught him in a pseudo logic error. Due to the fact I purposely trapped him with the wedge and fingerprints. He had to change the way the culprit moved slightly in order for the game to continue. He also made a rule behind the scenes limiting my green and blue so I couldn't pull another Erika on him.

Guess I'll never get this one.
Found it.

>>11446
>>11447
Well, it may be a good idea for me to tell you that I haven't even started on the VN version yet. (That said, the game was definitely written for VN format. And I agree with Rika, Ozaki solved it way too quickly and it lost all tension near the climax. I was willing to sacrifice 'difficulty' for 'storytelling' though. Maybe I should've had a 'theories thread' for spectators at the time.)

>>11450
That wasn't too much of an edit though. The culprit still left through the same place. Beatrice pulled these retroactive stunts all the time in Umineko. And the rules were adjusted because they were never well-defined in the first place.

>>11479
Right. Just thought I'd point it out since it was all behind the scenes.

>>11481
>>11479
The first twilight you mean? That wasn't a logic error at all, you know, anon was the Genji that time.

>>11560
Right. It simply caused him to make the piece move in such a way so the game wouldn't end early.

>>11561
He got really nervous about it, but in the end he didn't change the answer, did he? He just made the nurse used gloves when she locked the door.

>>11562
Pretty sure it was something else actually, but regardless it didn't change the real answer.

>>11562
Ozaki was trying to get me to use the gloves, and I couldn't think of anything better, but anon suggested the door was opened from the outside by the culprit.

Last edited at 13/04/17(Wed)14:34

>>11566
Oh that's right. I was trying to make you do that since it still would have worked in my favor.
Regardless, with that solution it basically forces the teacher to say "Hey kids, if somebody gets murdered, don't tell Ozaki shit because he is a feget." Which isn't something they would normally do. Since if they didn't lie to me they all told me they had not split up, and it was impossible for them to leave once the teacher put them in the classroom. Which would have caused a logic error, but fixing it with meta gaming works.

Of course meta gaming is the pinnacle of seacats so it's fine.

Last edited at 13/04/17(Wed)21:41

>>11568
That wasn't really meta gaming. The nurse could have just threatened them. Seeing just how selfish the kids were and how of a jerk Ozaki was as a teacher I see no real reason for them to actually tell you. Once the nurse was dead the kids probably only were too scared in general and just were thinking in run away.

>>11569
Well that is still meta gaming because of my actions caused a action not originally intended, but that is a witches game.
But my main flaw is that the threatening solution is silly, and sounds more like a joke which stems from the one you made about me being terrible teacher rather than something I would expect a human to do.

Actually I could make it work, but w/e.

Last edited at 13/04/18(Thu)12:25

>>11570
It works well enough already, imo. I'm more concerned about different part of this game, in which you actually messed Kinjo's plans and he had to make it welp.

>>11571
I guess it's all my fault then. Otherwise there would not have been any problems with the mystery in redemption since if this were to be irl the culprit would have been caught after the first murder.

Whatever. What is done is done. Like you said it works.

Last edited at 13/04/18(Thu)19:32

>>11572
hahaha don't make me search for another embarassing screenshot