>>8073
Isn't that interesting. Lots of gameboards these days. I like that.

Hm, I'll start with an easy blue truth for the general setting that seems fairly obvious : Kinzo is dead since before the start of the family conference
And another one that would be great : Shannon and Kannon are different people
According to the way you described the different groups, I am enclined to assume that each time you refer to "the servants" as a whole, you are referring to Kanon, Shannon, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo

Well ! Time to start this mystery shall we ?

1st twilight : Jessica's death.
No special trick was used, the culprit simply stabbed her and left.
The culprit could be pretty much anyone at this point, no need to delve into it there.

2nd Twilight : Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva and Hideyoshi's death.
Well, this one already seems more interesting. Basically we have 3 groups of people here : The servants in the VIP room, George and Battler in the Guesthouse and Krauss and Natsuhi in their bedroom ( In Umineko they are shown to have separate bedrooms, I think this is only one room that you are talking about here, right ? )
Well, anyway, there are multiple possibilities :
Now, the obvious one : Krauss and Natsuhi killed them., It's easy to place since they are the only group not locked or sealed.

Now, for the servants, we are given that Erika heard all of them, however, it doesn't mean forcefully mean that they are all in the room.
A recording device has been used to imitate one of the servant's voice..
One of the servant has mimicked another's voice.
Now, the main reason I bring this up is so that one of them could be the culprit, for this murder at least. And since they are locked by Krauss's only key, Krauss has let one the servant out of the VIP room.

For the last group, it would be particularly hard for them to have committed this murder, but there is always the possibility that they replaced Eirka's seal after it has been broke so they could escape.

[b]3rd twilight : Kumasawa and Gohda's death
Since the seal has been broken , it's fairly obvious that Krauss has something to do with this murder, since he possess the only key to it.
So either a servant inside the servant's room killed them. Krauss opened the room afterwards for some reason, or it's Krauss himself, using his key to enter, that killed them

4th twilight : Krauss and Natsuhi's death
Well this twilight seems to be a bit tricky, since it relies a lot on keys. The location of most of the keys aren't given in red to us. We know that Kanon and Shannon both have their own, I suppose Genji has his own, too. Gohda and Kumasawa's master keys aren't even brought up ( assuming there is only 5 master keys, one for each servant ) and I don't know about the VIP room's key nor Natsuhi and Krauss's bedroom key, either Krauss has them or the group in the parlor has them. Well, I'll try :
Firstly, they're the obvious solution :
One of the members of the parlor killed them. Since they are in possession in most of the keys, it seems only logical, Natsuhi's bedroom key was retrieved on Krauss corpse or they already took it when they locked him in the room.

Second, a little crazy one:
Krauss has retrieved Gohda or Kumasawa's master key before getting locked up. He then use it to get out of the room. He is possession of his bedroom's key. He opens it. Natsuhi is in there, for some a reason a fight occur. Ntsuhi gets stabbed and Krauss gets shot. Natsuhi takes Krauss's body to Kyrie and Rudolf's room, then she lock herself in her room. She isn't dead since she is only refer as "stabbed"

There's always the possibility that Battler got out Kinzo's study before getting locked up. Battler took Gohda or Kumasawa's master key to get out of the study, use it to get to Krauss and kill him, retrieve Natsuhi's bedroom key and then kill her. He retreat to Kinjo's study shortly after.

The same theory can be applied to Erika, honestly, even more so since she is in the same room as Gohda and Kumasawa's corpse.

5th Twilight : Battler, George, Shannon and Nanjo's death
Well this one is pretty blunt : One or several of the three survivors killed them
I don't really have anything to add, I'll wait for your response to it I guess.

Now some last general blues :
Another person not mentioned in the story is on the island.
Secret passages exist on the island

Well, I think that's more than enough for starters. I may have gone overboard with my shotgun-style blue there, sorry ~

>>8075
Oho~

Also, I should probably note this, since I noticed it a bit later: Erika was not let out of the VIP room during the servant "takeover".

Kinzo is dead since before the start of the family conference.
Shannon and Kannon are different people.
Each time I refer to "the servants" as a whole, I am referring to Kanon, Shannon, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda and Nanjo.


1st Twilight:
The culprit simply stabbed her and left, correct.

2nd Twilight:
Yes, when I talk about Krauss' and Natsuhi's bedroom, I'm talking about one room.
Krauss let no servant out of the VIP room.
Nobody on the island has the power to mimick anyone's voice other than their own.
No recording device was used.
The seal on the guesthouse was not disturbed or replaced in any way.

3rd Twilight:
I will acknowledge that nobody inside the room is responsible for their death, but nothing more.

4th Twilight:
Let's make this a bit more interesting:
Nobody left the parlor during the time of the 4th Twilight.
Natsuhi was killed before Krauss.
Erika is the detective.

5th Twilight:
Since at this point you don't have a definitive theory to go with so far, I won't answer the blue regarding the final deaths.

Finally...
There exists no extra person on the island.
Secret passages do not exist on the island.

At 13:25, Shannon and Gohda are in the kitchen. Nanjo and Gohda are in Kinzo's study.

Logic error?

>>8077
Erm... no, just a typo. Genji and Nanjo are in Kinzo's study. Sorry.

>>8076
Ah, glad to see a response so quickly. Well, I can't really do everything at once, I'll do it twilight by twilight.

It seems you didn't deny all of my blue truth for the 2nd twilight :
Krauss and Natsuhi killed them

>>8079
Well, the main reason I didn't answer it is because you haven't provided me with a theory that can incorporate them as culprits in all of the twilights. In other words, if I say anything to this, I would just be hand-feeding you, in a way if I straight up told you "it's not them".

But I will say this - There is only one culprit.

>>8080
I see, well I expect a weird red that would have seemingly made it impossible for them to participate.

It seems I'll have to ask for general things.

Request : Definition of culprit.

For the VIP room : The key Krauss possess is the only way of locking and unlocking this room
Also, I would like to know the presence of windows and the way they are unlocked/opened.
Same thing for Natsuhi/Krauss and Kyrie/Rudolf's bedroom.


When you say that Erika is the detective, does this fall under Knox's rules ? Or what exactly does this mean ? Is her hearing flawless ?

Would it be also too much to ask for the state of the different keys at the moment of the 4th Twilight ?

>>8081
Let's see. The culprit is "the one who kills".
As for the VIP room, it can be opened with the master keys.
No window was opened in the VIP room, Natsuhi/Krauss or Kyrie/Rudolf's bedroom.

And yeah, I can't respond to the location of the master keys.

Added:
Also, yeah, I mean that Erika's the detective in Knox's sense.

>>8083
Ah, I get it, when you said that Krauss has the only key that can open the VIP room and Natsuhi's room you meant the normal key that can only open one room, while the master keys works as usual. God confused because Umineko's classic VIP room cannot be opened by master keys.

Well anyway, I think I can safely assume that
the culprit faked his death wanna hear why ?

>>8084
Well, again, you have to keep in mind that this isn't the standard Umineko universe. I made more than one change to it, obviously.

Don't keep me in suspense.

Also, I just realized - that I made this a lot harder than I originally intended it to be... Oh, well. We'll see how you do, I guess. XP

>>8085
There is only one culprit aka there is only one to kill.
Let's skip to the 3rd twilight :
I will acknowledge that nobody inside the room is responsible for their death (Kumasawa and Gohda's)
This means that the four people inside can't be the culprit since they didn't kill them.

Now if we skip to the last part :
By midnight, only the culprit will be alive. At this time, Erika, Genji and Kanon are alive in the guesthouse.
Erika is the detective, she can't be the culprit, and Genji and Kanon were art of that group inside the VIP room. Thus the three we know to be alive cannot, in fact, be the culprit. Since the culprit will be the only one alive in the end, he's obviously faking his death.

There are two ways for this to be false : The 3rd twilight's death was an accident
And if by some nasty wordplay Genji or Kanon aren't part of the group in the VIP room.
Now what do you think of this ?

>>8086
None of the deaths are accidents.
Well done. Now all you have to do is figure which one... Shouldn't be too hard, right?

Added:
Also, Genji and Kanon were both part of the VIP group, as you put it.

>>8088
Marvelous. Gotta be careful with your red ~
Well, I gotta finish all these twilights before I get to the who, I do think it'll present itself along the way.

2nd Twilight
Poison was used
Traps were used
The culprit simply killed them ( by stabbing/shooting, etc... ) and got out. The way he managed to get there is another mystery

3rd Twilight
The culprit got in the VIP room and simply killed them. To get in the VIP room he could have : used Krauss's key ( Either it's Krauss or Krauss's key was stolen ), or stolen a master key from one of the servants before they were locked.
A trap was used
The culprit got in the VIP room through the window. Since you denied a window ever having been open, he may have broke through the window or removed the window.

Still have to think for the two remaining cases.

>>8089
No poison or trap was used for any of the deaths!
Correct, the culprit simply entered the VIP room through the door and killed them.
None of the servant's master keys were stolen from them before being locked in the VIP room.
Krauss' key to the VIP room did not unlock that door during the time of the 4th Twilight.
During the 4th Twilight, no windows were opened, closed or removed!

>>8090
Don't you mean the 3rd twilight ?

>>8091
3rd* for both times I mentioned 4th.
XP Sorry.
But the red itself is still valid, though. XD

>>8092
> Emoticons
> Reported
You're new here aren't you ? I was trying to figure out who you were and your username didn't ring any bell.

Well anyway.
The servants master keys were taken from them before they were locked
The servants themselves gave the master keys
One of the servant lost his master keys.
A servant unlocked himself the VIP room from the inside with his master key and let the culprit inside

>>8093
Eeeyup. Sorry about that. Won't happen again.

In any case,
The servants master keys were not taken from them before they were locked
The servants themselves did not give the master keys.
None of the servants lost his master keys.
A servant did not unlock the VIP room himself/herself from the inside with his master key and let the culprit inside.

>>8094
Eh, this getting interesting.
The VIP room was never locked from the beginning. No red statement about it after all.
Physical force was used to open the door without keys.
The door was picklocked. The culprit possess a self-made copy of the key or of one master key.
The door was broken.
The door was removed
The culprit got in through the roof
The walls were removed
The walls were broke
The culprit got in through the ceiling.

>>8095

The room was locked.
A master key was used to unlock the door.

(Again, easy.)

>>8097
Hm.
There only exists 5 master keys right ? One for each servant ?

>>8098
There exist 6 master keys. Five belong to the servants.
I refuse to state who the 6th one belongs to.

>>8099
Ahah. So that was it.
The 6th key belonged to Kinzo. When he died Krauss probably took it for himself or let it in his study.
Either way, the culprit used this 6th key to get in, he got it from Kinzo's study or from Krauss himself ( Or Krauss is the culprit and he used it )

The 6th Master key belongs to Kinzo.
Well done, yet again.
I won't explain the way the killer got into possession of the key for obvious reasons.

>>8101
Well then, for the 4th twilight... I feel like it should be obvious, but...

4th twilight : Krauss and Natsuhi's death
The killer used his master key to enter Natsuhi's room and then stabbed her, then he got into Krauss's and shot him
But... It's not that simple, now is it ?

>>8102
I could try making something up to make it less simple, but no - that is correct.

The crux of this story lies more in the "whodunnit" rather than the "howdunnit".

>>8103
I see. Then on to the next.

5th Twilight : Battler, George, Shannon and George's death
The culprit is one of the four presumed dead, he killed the three others with a knife or something furtive and then faked his death.

Oh?
Battler, George, Nanjo and Shannon are dead.

>>8105
I see. Then I know who the culprit is.
The culprit was someone who was supposed dead earlier ( For suspense's sake, I'll not name him now ), he sneaked in the parlor before 18:00 and profited of the blackout to kill them.

>>8106
[18:00]
Everyone alive on the island is now gathered in the parlor.

>>8107
He sneaked in the parlor before 18:00
He may even have hid himself under a table or in a closet for what I know.

>>8108
You really want to pin him, don't ya? Well, sorry to disappoint you:
Nobody sneaked into the parlor at 18:00 or before 18:00

>>8109
Well what the hell. How could he have faked his death then. And, what the freak, the only people remaining outside of that were already proven innocent... Was I wrong with my deduction ?
It couldn't be that the culprit left the island at 18:00 ( By swimming or whatever ) and then came back to kill them.
What the hell

>>8110
The culprit, at no point, left the island!

Nanjo, Shannon, Battler, George, Kanon, Erika and Genji were not the only ones in the parlor at 18:00

I refuse....

EDIT: Or, in other words, I cannot really respond to that.

BTW, also forgot about Nanjo in the last red. He's alive with the rest in the guesthouse, as well.

>>8114
Of course he is.
After all how would Natsuhi have survived this long otherwise?

Natsuhi was only stabbed, never killed or dead. She was in the parlor at 18:00

>>8116
Natsuhi is dead.

>>8117
Well, I was supposed to sleep but whatever.
The culprit, before 18:00, killed one of the survivor and disguised himself as him.

>>8118
The culprit never disguised himself as one of the survivors.

>>8117
Tis a shame, Natsuhi killing her husband and daughter would have been interesting.

The servants were not locked up at 14:40, but at a later time after Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva and Hideyoshi were already killed.

Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva and Hideyoshi were not killed at 16:00 but at an earlier time, before the servants were locked in.

>>8120
The servants were locked in before Kyrie's, Rudolf's, Eva's and Hideyoshi's death.
Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva and Hideyoshi died after the servants were locked in.

>>8122
The culprit is present in the group that got to the parlor at 18:00
The " at midnight only the culprit will be alive " doesn't refer to this day's midnight, but to yesterdays's midnight.

>>8123
The culprit is present in the group that got to the parlor at 18:00.
I'm referring to this day's midnight.

>>8122
The red vs blue in this thread is not very organized so I haven't read it all. My apologies.

>Kumasawa and Ghoda are dead seen dead in the servant's room.

I can't really tell if it's a typo or not, if it isn't however since Erika wasn't there either one of them could have faked their death. Even with their heads cut off.

>>8125
Yeah, that was a typo. My apologies.
I'll guarantee that they are dead, however.

>>8126
Thanks.

Alright Squitcher I don't know what your theory is but my first idea was Kanon or Genji. Assuming you have figured out all the other closed rooms then I'd ask; what are the mysteries left that need to be solved?

Or rather, what is stopping us from pinpointing them as the culprit?

>>8127
I think this is what you're looking for:
Nobody left the parlor during the time of the 4th Twilight.

I don't know how trusting you are with the normal text.since Erika wasn't there the people said to have been gathered in the parlor is false

Ergo during that time Erika was locked up anything could have happened

>>8129
I am aware of this, but... I do have a reason why I'm doing this the way I am. While it may not be following the standard way the detective is used in a story...

I'm also aware this isn't the standard way the original novels executed it, but... Yeah.

>>8131
I see.

Well my internet isn't working and I'd rather not use up all my data. I'll check up on this later

The servants were locked in the VIP room by Krauss, but then Erika heard the servants in the servant's room, and none of the servants used their keys to unlock the door. So in other words, someone used the 6th master key to unlock the VIP room from the outside after Krauss locked it, and then the servants all moved to the servant's room, right? I imagine they thought Krauss had let them out, since he had the only other key.

Also,
>>8090
>Correct, the culprit simply entered the VIP room through the door and killed them.
Did you mean to write "parlor" there?

I think that when he wrote " the servant's room" he refers to the VIP room, as in "the room where the servants are gathered". I've done the same here, referring to Kyrie and Rudolf's room as "Krauss's room" because Krauss was locked within.
And this red was in response to my own blue about the 3rd Twilight since it takes the exact same form.

Speaking about that you didn't respond to my simple blue there about the 2nd Twilight
>>8089

>>8127
Well I solved the 1st, 3rd and 4th Twilight. I assumed I had done the same for the 2nd but without a red truth I can't say I did.
The main reason why I don't want to put the blame on Kanon or Genji is because I thought I proved the innocence of all the servants way back in the posts.
>>8086
But it seems I was wrong.
All the servants are innocents, as I proved.
All the servants were inside the VIP room at the moment of the 3rd twilight

Request : Confirmation of all the people alive before the 5th Twilight.

One of the four survivor of the 5th Twilight ( If Nanjo is alive, kinda confused about that ) simply killed Shannon, George and Battler in the blackout

I must admit I don't like coming back on my earlier statements, looks like you pulled one serious wordplay somewhere and I fell into it when I foolishly proved the servant's innocence

>>8133
Erm... Yeah, sorry about that. What Squitcher said. The servants never moved into the servant's room. They stayed in the VIP room. My apologies. As I said, I'm sort of new to this...

>>8136
Yes, your solution for the 2nd Twilight is also correct. The culprit simply entered the room and killed them.

I refuse to confirm the people who are alive before the 5th Twilight.

And yes, Nanjo is alive. He is also alive at 19:00.

>>8137
Repeat this : At the time of the 5th twilight, no more than 7 people are alive on the island.

>>8138
Please define "at the time of the 5th Twilight". Do you mean before or after the murders?

Also, I've been acting like a complete goddamn idiot. Nanjo IS NOT alive by 19:00. Again, sorry. Forgot I had him in the 5th Twilight.

>>8140
Before the murders.

>>8141

Before the murders of the 5th Twilight, no more than 7 people were alive.

Again, I must apologize for my mistakes so far. I hope and appreciate you're bearing with me here...

>>8142
Well, I won't lie, it's pretty annoying, but by experience it's probably as annoying for me as for you. I just hope I'm not stuck where I am right now just because of a mistake on your part.

For now I'm really stuck, need to think a bit. I went head first into a corner when I thought I proved that the culprit faked his death. Damn.

>>8143
No, you should still be able to solve this just fine. I hope.

Let' see... I'll make a list of mistakes and corrections:
13:25 -> Nanjo and Genji are in Kinzo's study instead of Nanjo and Ghoda.
Nanjo died in the 5th Twilight.
The servants were locked in the VIP room and not moved to the servant's room. They stayed in the VIP room until the "takeover".

Hm
>>8119
There's still ways to loophole around this
The culprit disguised himself as someone other than the survivors.

>>8145
The culprit never disguised himself, in any way.

Also, definition of disguise - making any of the characters of the story believe they are another character of the story (when they aren't).

>>8146
The culprit genuinely believed he was another person.
The culprit suffered from a multiple personality disorder.
The culprit took upon the name of another person.

>>8137
If the servants never left the VIP room in the takeover, then it should be impossible for Krauss to lock her inside without breaking the seal. Should she have been locked up in a different room?

>Nobody sneaked into the parlor at 18:00 or before 18:00.

Does this also rule out that the culprit simply walked openly into the parlor and hid there before anyone else arrived?

>>8148
He probably simply replaced the seal after having locked Erika inside I thinK.

>>8149
A seal you can pull off and replace without breaking it is a worthless seal, isn't it? Also, "He acknowledges that there's a possibility that the servants may be the culprits and leaves Erika's previous seal on the servant's room."

>>8147
The culprit does not suffer from multiple personality disorder.
The culprit does have another name.

>>8148
Correct, the seal was simply replaced, as Squitcher said. However - The culprit was not hidden in the parlor during the time of the 5th Twilight.

>>8151
The seal was not disturbed in any way until Krauss placed it there again after putting Erika in the room.

>>8151
Also, I must've worded that incorrectly. I apologize. And again, it's referring to the VIP room.

>>8153
Well. It's obvious then, isn't it ?
The culprit other name is the same as one of the other survivors.

>>8155
At this point, I feel like I've made a lot of mistakes so far (even though none of them affect the actual solution) and that you'll just be pissed at me when I tell it to you, so I'll throw you a bone.

When I say: "The culprit has another name", I'm talking about the culprit's real name. This name does not equal to Erika, Kanon or Genji. This name is irrelevant.

To shorten the chance of misdirection:
None of the servants are the culprit.

There. This might be hand-feeding you, but there's really no other way I could've revealed this without putting you on a wild goose chase and about a million loopholes.

>>8157
I see So like Shannon/Sayo. Except none of the servants are culprits. , of course it may have to do with something like shannon or Kanon aren't servant or whatever.
Or is it the Kinzo thing ? Where someone gains that name.
Well dang, I don't know for now, I feel like I've been searching far away from what I should have been doing. I'll just take a little break for now.

>>8157
>All the other members of the family that have been established to exist in the normal Umineko universe still exist, alive or dead.
>Rosa does not exist.
>None of the deaths are accidents.

Since Rosa doesn't exist, the accident she was responsible for never happened either. In other words, Ushiromiya Beatrice is still alive on the island!

>>8159
Nnnnope.
There exists no extra person on the island.

Definition of "extra person" - a person who is not mentioned in the narrative.
Also, let's say that in this universe:
The Italian Beatrice died without ever having a child.

>>8160
Aww, I liked my Genji + Beatrice accomplice theory. Although it was already denied a few posts ago.

The only way I can see around this is if one of the names actually refers to two people, and one of those people is the culprit. Since the culprit never disguised himself in any way and everyone alive on the island met for lunch, that means everyone is aware that they’re two different people and we just couldn’t tell from the narration. Despite that, they were both mentioned in the narrative, so the 'extra person' rule doesn't eliminate them.

I guess the second person could also be someone who isn't on the island at all, but that would be pretty silly.

Also, definition check: "Death" and all related terms refer to the immediate and permanent physical death of a human body and to no other concept.

>>8161
"Death" and all related terms refer to the immediate and permanent physical death of a human body and to no other concept.

As for your theory about a second person, unless you can incorporate it into a theory, I can't really respond.

>>8162
Sorry, I still didn't figure out that last trick. Even if I pick a culprit, it seems that every red denies their involvement or simply outright states their death.
Maybe it's the "The culprit will be the only one alive at midnight" that's a nasty wordplay.
Anyway, I don't know, I'm too dense there.

>>8163
Well, to be fair, the trick is a lot more nasty then I led you on to believe, eh heh, so I can't really blame you....

I keep coming back to the "multiple gunshots" at the 4th Twilight, especially since Erika wasn't allowed to view the bodies and might be under the impression that both Krauss and Natsuhi were shot. That would have been a great time for Battler to murder the other Battler after letting himself out of the study with his master key. Then he could drag the corpse out during the blackout at the 5th Twilight.

>>8165
Other than Natsuhi and Krauss, nobody else died during the 4th Twilight.

Ok, 13 people died. (red)
At the end, 3 people are alive in the guesthouse. (green)

These 3 can't be the culprit.
Which means, the culprit is still alive, the 4th person (he's just not in the guesthouse)
The 13 victims are dead for sure and can't be the culprit.

I've got some problems with the reds, especially with: Before the murders of the 5th Twilight, no more than 7 people were alive.

But I think Eccaia is right about the "hidden character".

Just gathered some thoughts here, I hope you all don't mind, I still have to make a real theory though...

Here is what I gathered from the 5th twilight.
There's only one blue I have for now :
The peoples in the parlor aren't the seven person we are made to believe.

I've got nothing else, really, kind of a shame.

>>8170
Well I just thought of something in that direction.
One of the seven person ( 4 servants, Battler, Erika and George ) in the parlor has died before 18:00. Thus the culprit can be inside the parlor and there would still be 7 person.

Hmm. We know that at 17:15, people named Shannon, George, Kanon, Nanjo, and Genji were alive in the parlor, and people named Battler and Erika were alive elsewhere. No one left the parlor until 17:20, and afterwards that group collected Battler and Erika. Assuming that everyone moved together between then and 18:00 and no one went missing, there's no room for an 8th person to exist in the group, so the extra person must have one of those 7 names.

Shannon, George, and Kanon are innocent because they were together constantly from the time they locked up Krauss until they found him dead. Also, because of the discrepancy with the number of gunshots at the 4th Twilight, the multiple gunshot sounds were probably from something like a string of firecrackers that was rigged to go off by itself in order to give the culprit an alibi. This is ineffective unless the culprit is with the group in the parlor, so we can probably mark Erika and Battler innocent too. That just leaves Genji and Nanjo, but I’m having trouble narrowing it down from there because I can make a theory with either of them. Say the name of the extra person is X…

0T: Culprit X stole the master key from Kinzo’s corpse while he was in the study at the beginning of the game.
1T: Culprit X just walked into Jessica’s room and committed the murder.
2T: Likewise. Although Servant X was in the VIP room, Culprit X remained free to roam the mansion.
3T: During the blackout, Culprit X entered the VIP room and killed Kumasawa, Gohda, and Servant X. Instead of carefully removing and replacing the door seal, he deliberately broke it, which created the impression that it had been opened from the inside. Then, after committing the murders, he took Servant X’s corpse out of the room and hid it somewhere to make him look like the culprit.
4T: Culprit X was left alone until the gathering in the parlor. He entered Natsuhi’s room and killed her first, then followed Shannon’s group until they locked up Krauss and shot him after they left. Before returning to the parlor, he set up a string of firecrackers on a long fuse so they would go off after he had rejoined the survivors.
5T: Culprit X just killed the victims during the blackout.
6T: Culprit X accompanied the survivors to the guesthouse and killed all of them.

I'm not sure how to nail down the culprit from there without knowing whether the corpse of Nanjo at the 5th Twilight really belonged to the Nanjo who was sitting in the parlor or not. On the other hand, judging from the previous murders, the culprit seems to be interested in framing Servant X, and I think it would be disadvantageous to have the scapegoat’s corpse turn up, so I’m leaning toward Genji. I also thought it was interesting that Shannon’s group didn’t give Genji a gun, implying that he isn't the Genji they work with and trust.

>>8172
Well, we can't be certain for sure that those person were there at 17:15, since we got no red. that's the same thing for the gathering at 18:00.
I realized Battler is probably not the culprit since he was shut in the guest house after the 1st twilight alongside with George.
I think you're overlooking this red :
None of the servants are the culprit.

Well now, gamemaster, TELL ME

>>8173
I'm just saying the culprit has the same name as one of the servants, not that he is a servant himself.

For now, I'm assuming there's no blatant lying in the narration. If DWaM wants to deny my assumptions, he just has to wave his red blade at them~

>>8174
Well, I don't think the names have that much importance, after all
>>8157
The name is irrelevant
And I already went through all the "disguised as another person" theories I could think of.
Well I'm just trying to exploit every loophole I can find.
Let's just wait for DWaM to wave his sword at us.

>>8173
None and the "-non" in Kanon and Shannon's names are homonyms. Obviously the "non" are the culprit refers to Kanon and Shannon being the culprit!

I'm currently on vacation right now and on pretty limited access, so... yeah. Your deductions are very interesting and I'll get around to replying them as soon as I get back (should be about 10 days or so...) Again, my apologies for the inconvenience.

>>8177
Well, enjoy your vacations then !

Well, I'm not back from my vacation, but I decided to use what internet I have and not keep you in wait:

>>8171
I'll make this even sweeter for you:
One of the victims of the 5th Twilight was already dead before 18:00.

>>8172
Where should I start with this one...

The sounds heard from upstairs during the events of the 4th Twilight were most certainly gunshots.
The culprit was in possession of Kinzo's master key before the murders, yes.
(Regarding the 3rd Twilight:) Nobody inside the room is responsible for their death. (By "them", I'm referring to Kumasawa and Ghoda.)
Natsuhi and Krauss were still alive before 17:15.

>>8176
Erm... I'm not sure how to... Uhm... Fine, I'll rephrase it: A servant isn't the culprit. This includes Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa, Ghoda and Nanjo.

>>8179
Ah, finally ! Then it's almost the end of this mystery isn't it ? ~
The trick has already been mostly solved, but I guess there's that to add :
The culprit killed one of 4 supposed victims of the 5th twilight before hand. My supposed guess would be Nanjo, but it doesn't really matter.
The culprit got into the parlor (The conundrum with the number has already been solved, no need to mention it again ), and simply killed them in the blackout.

Now, for the culprit identity, my best guess would be that the culprit is Jessica.
Not Ushiromiya Jessica, though, since Ushiromiya Jessica is now dead, the fact that she was the only one whose death was confirmed along with her family name tipped me off, especially when I learned that culprit had another name.
Jessica has another name, another family name, that is, she "killed" or got rid of her other family name at the time of the 1st twilight, maybe by renouncing to the heritage or some shit like that.
She got the key from Kinzo's study or from her father, wherever it was. She had easy access to it, living on the island and whatnot.

So, what do you think of that, DWaM ?

>>8180
Not. Quite.

Jessica is not the culprit. Jessica does not posses any other names. Nor has she thrown away her name or anything of the sort.
Everyone in the parlor who was alive was aware of everyone else in the parlor that was alive. Are you suggesting that they just sat back with Jessica in the parlor for 30 minutes? And before you try to suggest anything, remember:

> The survivors gather in the parlor. Everyone alive on the island is now gathered in the parlor. Shannon, Kanon and George are still armed.

>>8181
Well damn. I was so proud of my Jessica culprit theory. I guess if it isn't her it's probably one of the supposed victim of the 2nd twilight then.

I'm kinda confused by the awareness thing ? Did they actually thought that the person supposed dead was with them ? Weren't they aware of the person supposed dead actually being alive ?

I dunno, but here's some blue for ya :
The survivors weren't aware of the culprit's supposed death in the first place
One or several survivors are the culprits accomplices : they threatened the other survivors so there wouldn't be any conflict ( especially work with the armed person as accomplices and explain the servant's takeover. )
The culprit simply explained his alive status by some lie like he faked his death, the culprit missed a vital spot, etc...

>>8182


I'm... a little confused by your reasoning here, to be honest, but I'll play along, I guess~:

When I said that everyone was aware of each other in the parlor, I meant that in the sense that they found nothing suspicious about other people's presence there (everyone who was supposed to be there, all things considered and seen was there). In other words, if Jessica was the culprit, they would've instantly known she was the culprit. But they didn't and instead felt at ease (considering the 30 minute gap). Also, remember - the culprit never disguised himself.

Now, onto your blues...
The survivors knew and were aware of everyone that was suposed to have been killed up to that point. (Either they saw it for themselves, or were told by someone else, it doesn't really matter.)
There are no accomplices.
The culprit did no such thing. (Let's be frank, if he or she did, he or she would've been suspect no. 1 from then on out.)

>>8187
Well, I'm a little confused myself by this new mystery, after all you kept pulling oddities after another. Not that I complain of course, it makes things more enjoyable, but also make my explanations more confusing ~

Well this is the weirdest thing I have to argue about yet in terms of gameboards.
So basically the parlor members knew that the culprit was supposed to be killed ( Yeah, still going for that theory ) but didn't suspect him when he came back.
It's a pretty confusing scenario, and an unusual for sure.
The culprit presented a fake alibi that made him innocent for the others.
It's all I've got for now.

Oh, let me try this.
Ushiromiya Rosa doesn't exist because she was expelled from the family. Rosa, however does exist.

Sorry for the delayed response, I'm back now.

>>8188
Hmm... Well, that would fall under my previous red: The culprit did no such thing. It sorta refers to the entire scenario, in general.

>>8189
Nope. Rosa does not exist, in any way.

Welcome back, did you have a nice vacation?

>>8179
Re: 3rd twilight, in the room when? You said that the culprit simply entered the VIP room through the door and killed them, so by definition they must have been in the room during the murder. I never said they stuck around afterward.

About the multiple gunshots, try these on for size.
- The culprit missed Krauss the first time he fired his gun, perhaps because of a struggle.
- Krauss obtained a gun from Kyrie and Rudolf's room and fired it at the culprit before being killed.
- The culprit deliberately fired an extra round so that he could suggest to the survivors that the culprit must have committed suicide.
- He could also suggest that Kinzo had been murdered during the 4th Twilight. If this came from Genji or Nanjo, it would sound suspicious to the other one since they both saw the body, but if "Battler" is the culprit, he wouldn't know that the corpse had already been found.

As for the culprit:
- Anyone who wasn't in the parlor and wasn't locked up during the 4th twilight would be a clear suspect to the other survivors, so "Battler" who was supposedly locked in the study is the likely culprit by process of elimination.
- If the culprit was able to make an excuse for what they were doing at the 4th Twilight, then it could be George or Nanjo. For instance, the Nanjo who was "gathered in the parlor" during the 4th twilight was the corpse of servant-Nanjo, while the other non-servant Nanjo was upstairs committing the murders.

>>8191

Well, London is expensive as hell, but, yeah, it was pretty good.

3rd Twilight: The red refers to everyone that was in the room before the actual murders. IIRC, you suggested that someone inside the room was responsible for it, or something similar?

Correct, the culprit's first shot at Krauss missed. Simple as that.

For your Battler theory, I can't really comment on it until you can provide me with an explanation of all the Twilights. Same with the Nanjo theory (primarily because I'm interested in seeing how you can possibly explain what happens after that, keeping in mind there's no extra person on the island...)

>>8192
3rd Twilight: No, I said the culprit tried to make it look that way by breaking the seal when he didn't have to, but he came from outside.

As long you leave that "two people with the same name" extra person loophole open, even if you say "X is dead" or "X is a servant", it won't work~

"Battler" version:
1T: Walked in and killed Jessica.
2T: Walked in and killed the siblings. The other Battler was the one in the guesthouse.
3T: Unlocked the door with the spare master key and killed Kumasawa and Gohda during the blackout. He could also kill the other Battler and hid the corpse in the parlor during this time.
4T: Snuck out of the study to kill Krauss and Natsuhi, then let himself back in with his master key.
5T: Killed the victims during the blackout and then dragged out the corpse of the other Battler.
6T: Went to the guesthouse with the victims and killed them.
The extra Battler could be Asumu's child that was miscarried in the original story.

"Nanjo" version:
1T: Walked in and killed Jessica.
2T: Walked in and killed the siblings. The servant Nanjo was the one locked up in the VIP room.
3T: Unlocked the door with the spare master key and killed Kumasawa, Gohda, and the servant Nanjo during the blackout, then dragged servant Nanjo's corpse away and hid it.
4T: Separated from the group before they went to the parlor (satisfying "no one left the parlor") and killed Krauss and Natsuhi. The Nanjo that was in the parlor was the hidden corpse from the 3rd twilight.
5T: Killed the victims during the blackout and dragged out servant Nanjo's corpse.
6T: Went to the guesthouse with the victims and killed them.
The extra Nanjo could be Nanjo Masayuki from EP4, for instance.

>>8193
Welp, while the Battler theory isn't really close to the solution, you figured out the basic concept, and the "double name" thing would just confuse everyone in the end, I'll just present the solution.

The culprit is the adopted son of Kyrie and Rudolf (therefore *technically* not a true part of the family) who changed his name to Battler (his original name didn't matter), note that this person was not the same person in the Umineko universe in terms of personality or the looks. He didn't need a name double, he had something a lot... loop-hole-y up his sleeve. You see, the Kinzo of this island was suffering from split personality disorder and had two personalities: his own and a personality of Battler. Because they inhibited the same body, they were both part of the family but, more importantly, of the same body. So, "Kinzo" was just as much as Battler as he was Kinzo (in other words, he was both). After his death, "Battler" eventaully came across his body and the Master Key. He then put his plan in motion.
1T: He simply walked in and killed Jessica killed Jessica.
2T: It was Kinzo's body that was in the guesthouse with George (hidden, of course). Of course, because Kinzo was both Battler and Kinzo in this universe, the red wasn't broken. Shortly after, and returned to the guesthouse (but only after Erika checked the seal).
3T: Of course, again, he simply walked in and killed Kumasawa and Ghoda.
4T: Same thing, he simply walked in and killed the two of them.
5T: Again, killed the victims. The body he used was Kinzo's.

I can understand that this is a lame solution (and that there will probably going to be complaints, hell, I wouldn't be surprised if I screwed up somewhere with the reds) but it was fun to play with you all. I promise, if I ever make another game, it won't be as... erm... annoying as this one.

>>8194
Well, I guess you said everything I could have complained about. I have nothing more to say than
Thank you for this game and you better come back with a better one !
The really annoying thing about the multiple names/personality solutions is that they are endless in their way of passing loophole, and as a player it's really hard to find them. At last try dropping clues about it next time !

>>8195
Erm, well, I tried to give it on some occasions, if memory serves me correctly (if I had to guess, I probably made them too vague or something). And yeah, I think I'll make another game, one that won't use loopholes (the irony is, I actually don't like those kinds of games, either...), but until then, I think I'm better off trying to solve one, at the moment.

>>8196
Well, it's usually best to put the clues in the original "story' I think.

If you want to participate in a game, well Lion said he would prepare a new kakera after his last, but it seems he has other things to take care of. I'm personally finally typing my gameboard in. It will be much smaller than what I had originally in mind but at least I'll be able to finish it this way. Don't get your hopes up though, It will take a long time to be done because of my laziness

>>8196
Oh shoot, I was so sure about evil Rosa.

>>8197
Yeah, I also like games that have most or all of the clues in the narrative.

I have a fairly complicated board that will turn up on here sooner or later, I just need to iron out a couple of plot kinks.