I glanced at my wristwatch. It was 8:30. The rain was still drizzling outside. I was pretty sure it would last throughout the weekend. Perhaps more? Well - that certainly wouldn't have been great. Don't get me wrong, it was nice seeing the cousins again. And Shannon and Kanon. I guess there was always something to Nanjo's mustache, as well. But beyond that - what can I say? Am I supposed to pretend that the adults hadn't gone off behind our backs, and revealed that behind those polite smiles, there was nothing but mutual bitterness and hatred? Maybe I'm just being too harsh on them. In retrospect, it was probably good ol' fashioned greed. Or desperation. Maybe a mix of both.

Ugh.

"Alright, got them." Jessica declared, as she stepped out of her room, carrying a box of cards and a chess set. Earlier, we'd realized that we'd forgotten to bring along anything... well... fun ,and quickly resorted to making awkward small talk, generally drowned out by the downpour outside. Jessica then got the idea to make a quick run to the mansion and get some games. I elected to join in.

"Hoho! Chess!" I grinned.

"Figured it's a good way to put smartasses like you in their place, y'know?" she grinned back, closing the door to her room.

"I never claimed I was smart, you know." I mused.

Her hand touched her chin. Thought for a second. And then, of course, without missing a beat: "Then, I guess you're just an ass!"

That one gave us both a chuckle.

We made our way downstairs. As we approached the stairway, we happened to pass next to grandfather's study. He'd made a brief appearance, earlier at dinner. It was a rather pleasant scene, really. After declaring all of us a wasted bloodline, he proceeded to down a glass of whiskey, muttered something about his beloved Beatrice, and then walked away. Oh, he complemented Gohda's cooking on the way out.

The thought occurred to me, as we passed his door, to knock it.

"Wh... are you crazy?!" Jessica almost jumped at me. She never was the type to be feared or intimidated, yet the great Ushiromiya Head had, it seemed, managed to do that. Well, he'd done it with just about anyone, looking back at it. Perhaps that's what'd made him Ushiromiya Kinzo.

I smiled. "I just want to talk to him. What's the worst that can happened?"

"Famous last words, you moro--"

"Will you kindly shut the hell up and go away?!" before Jessica had a chance to finish, we both jumped at the sound of the Ushiromiya Family Head's voice filling the dead silence of the hallway.

I turned my head to the study door.

"G-Grandfather... It's Battler. I want to talk to you about something."

"No. Go away!"

I gritted my teeth. "Grandf--" Jessica grabbed my arm, giving me one of those looks. I sighed. "Nevermind. Sorry to bother."

We went downstairs. I remember glancing at the portrait of Beatrice in the main hall as we went through the front door. I also remember hearing the sounds of arguing coming from the parlor. I wasn't surprised in the slightest.

We stepped outside. I opened the umbrella and happened to glance at my watch yet again.

8:32.

Jessica got close to me, and we left for the guesthouse.

The next time I looked at my watch was at 8:53. It was when Shannon had suddenly burst through the door of the guest room the four of us had been in, announcing something terrible had happened. "It's... it's Master Kinzo! He's... he's...! In front of the mansion - he's...!"

He was dead.

By the time we'd arrived, everyone had already gathered around the old man's body. He was, as Shannon had said, in front of the mansion. He was lying on his back, his head nudged slightly backwards, dipped in blood caused by a wound on the back of the head. His mouth was wide open and his eyes -- God, I tell you -- I think even the Grim Reaper was freaked out when he looked into them. Seems like even in death, Ushiromiya Kinzo was Ushiromiya Kinzo.

"...What happened?" George asked nobody in particular.

"We were in the parlor," Kyrie began to explain, motioning to the other adults, "when we heard Father scream. I remember Krauss glancing outside the window and not managing to see anything. So, he went to check. In less than a minute, he was the one screaming. We rushed out, and this is what we all saw. We sent out for Doctor Nanjo and the servants."

"How... did he die?" Jessica offered the next question.

"He must've fallen." Nanjo said. "There's simply no other way to explain these injuries. The amount of broken bones and the cracked skull is consistent with it."

"Fallen...?" I raised my brow. I turned on a flashlight I'd brought along and pointed it upwards. There was only one window where he could've possibly fallen from that would've placed him in front of the mansion. The study window. Yet, the window seemed closed shut. "...Someone must've pushed him." I declared. I could feel everyone's eyes dart straight at me. "I mean, the window he fell from's closed - look. And..." I raised the light further up, to the roof. "He couldn't have jumped from the roof. I mean, ignoring what he'd been doing there in the first place, he wouldn't have been able to stand on it - just look how slanted it is. Plus, it's pretty high up, I'm not sure how he would've even gotten there. Therefore..."

"...You're suggesting someone pushed Master from the study window and then closed it?" Genji was the one to interrupt me.

I nodded.

"It's the only thing that makes sense, isn't it?"

Nobody argued back. The years of that previously mentioned greed and desperation had implanted everyone with seeds of suspicion over far more trivial things than the death of the family Head. They weren't lifting their arms or saying any names, but you can bet there were fingers being pointed right then and there.

I looked at the corpse. I noticed there was some blood on Kinzo's hand.

I wasn't the only one.

"Why is there blood on Grandfather's hand?" George said. "I... don't see any other wounds on his body."

"Perhaps... Perhaps that blood isn't his?" Krauss suggested.

"Whose would it be, then?" Eva asked.

"The killer's." Kyrie quickly concluded. "He might not have been simply pushed. Let's face it, he's was hardly a feeble old man. And he wasn't the type to simply turn his back to a potential threat. There might've been a struggle."

Yet, later, when we did a body check, nobody had turned up with any wounds.

"Anything on the body?" Dad asked, oddly enough.

The only thing Nanjo had found had been the key to the study.

As we were made to believe, the study door's auto-lock had been broken months ago, so the only way to lock or unlock it would've been with the key. Of course - just Genji's word wasn't good enough for us, so we tested it. As perhaps expected, though, the devoted servant had been telling the truth.

The study itself had been divided into three sections: the bathroom, the living space, and the bedroom. After establishing nobody was hiding anywhere, we did a quick search. The bedroom was clean and well-kept. I remember Krauss giving props to Shannon and Natsuhi for that. There was nothing really interesting about it, though. No windows, no secret treasure under the bed, no paintings. It was - perhaps to my disappointment - plain. The same could've been said for the living space, honestly. Aside from the two suits of armor and the shelves filled with books upon books about the occult, there was hardly anything that stood out.

I checked the single window. Just as it looked from the outside, it was closed and locked. I was the first person to get to it, as well.

As for the bathroom - again - I'm not saying I expected a golden shitter. But a golden shitter would've been cool.

Instead, all we found was a sink.

With some blood in it.

"...Had the killer been wounded, after all?" Rosa wondered.

"Maybe." I said. "There's a possibility there's an extra person on the island... But, still. The blood might not have anything to do with the killer being wounded. There's still a valid possibility the killer is one of us. So - I suggest we give all our alibis."

The alibis were as follows:

♛ Krauss, Natsuhi, Dad, Kyrie, Eva, Hideyoshi and Rosa were in the parlor, discussing the inheritance. They began right around the time the dinner had ended, which would've been around 7:50. None of them remember anyone entering or leaving from the moment they started to the moment they heard the scream. It was a pretty heated discussion, and everyone could recall most of what had been said, making it all the more doubtful someone had left. At around 8:15, Rosa had called the guesthouse to check upon Maria. However, she made the call from the same room. Kyrie remembered that at around 8:20, Dad had opened one of the windows and lit up a cigarette. However, at a certain point, the wind had begun to blow and caused the rain to get on Dad's suit, so he quickly threw the cigarette outside and shut it closed. Nothing else of significance happened. They didn't look at the time when the scream happened. They think it must've been a bit before 8:40.

♜ Genji, Kumasawa and Gohda had been in the kitchen, cleaning it up after dinner. They'd finished at around 8:10, but instead of leaving, sat down for a cup of coffee. It was a pick-me-up for the few chores left over in the guesthouse. Their chat lasted all the way until Krauss arrived to inform them about what happened. It would've been a little past 8:40.

♝ Shannon, Kanon and Nanjo were in the servants' room in the guesthouse. Nanjo had admitted that he was unable to read because of the ruckus we'd been making, so he came down at around 8:05. Shannon and Kanon played cards (which they'd failed to inform us they had, which is just frankly terrific, by the way). At around 8:15, Kanon got up and left the room to answer the phone call from Rosa. He went upstairs to check up on Maria, and then came down to report back to Rosa. He was back in the room by 8:18 (Doctor Nanjo remembered checking his watch at the time). Kanon remembered, as we he was reentering the room, seeing me and Jessica heading out for the mansion. The three stayed in the servants' room until 8:50, when Genji showed up and told them about Kinzo's death. Shannon then went up and told us what happened.

♞ George, Jessica, Maria and I had arrived at the guesthouse at around 8. At around 8:15, Kanon walked in to check up on Maria. It was around then that Jessica and I decided to go to the mansion. It would've been around 8:18 when we'd left, if we were to go by Kanon's testimony. I want to say we arrived at the mansion a bit after 8:25 - somewhere in that range, at least - and went straight to Jessica's room. At around 8:30, I'd checked my watch as I was standing in front of Jessica's room. I was by her door, and she'd been inside for maybe two to three minutes, total. The door was open the entire time, and we talked while she was searching around for games. (I even peeked in once or twice; gathering intel, you understand). Jessica confirmed we'd both heard Kinzo's voice come from inside the study, meaning he must've been alive at that time. We left the mansion at 8:32, and arrived at the guesthouse at around 8:40. George and Maria were exactly where we'd left them, in the guest room. Aside from Maria once going to the bathroom for maybe a few minutes (George didn't know when it happened), they hadn't lost sight of each other.

♟ As a side-note, it took roughly 8 or so minutes to get from the mansion to the guesthouse. The most you could get out of sprinting way maybe cut it down to about 6, but even that would be pushing it.

"Wait, b... But this means..." Krauss began, after the timeline had been fully formed. "This means... none of us could've done this!"

"...It would appear so." Kyrie covered her mouth, deep in thought. "It would appear that there is an intruder on the island, after all."

We all looked at each other.

"I mean..." Dad said, "we've brought all the shotguns from the study down here with us. They're all in perfect working condition, so we'll probably be able to fight off whoever comes."

"I've also brought some food along," Gohda declared, showing off a delicious range of food. "And," he sighed, "carried over the microwave and the portable fridge from the kitchen, meaning we can just heat it up whenever we feel like eating it."

"I also brought some canned food from the pantry, in case the culprit tries to cut the power." Genji added.

"I've also brought along flashlights from the guesthouse, meaning we won't be left in the dark." Kanon said.

"And, I mean, there's a bathroom right here." George pointed out.

"All the keys are right here, as well. We've barricaded the doors and windows, so the culprit can't get in..." Hideyoshi rubbed his chin.

"Uh... Alright, then. Cool." I finally said. "Soooooo... Anyone wanna play some fuckin' cards, or what?"

_______________________________________

And, that's that!

One more thing I forgot to mention in the opening - the victory condition is only figuring out the 'how'. A 'who' is not necessary, and a 'why' is barely even hinted at.

Also, apologies for any weird wording/spelling/grammar mistakes. I'm my own worst proofreader (which is to say, I can't be fucked to proofread at all - so, sorry 'bout that).

Sometime between 8:25 and 8:30, Jessica arrives in her room, Battler has not yet peeked in. Kinzo is there! "Eww, some creepy old hobo is in my room," thinks Jessica as she pushes Kinzo out of the window, to the ground below. Kinzo falls on his back. He is deeply injured in body and spirit, but manages to stay alive. He then gets up, and goes to his study to plan revenge.

Kinzo arrives in his room between 8:25 and 8:32. But now Battler and Jessica arrive at his door, and he hears them talking! Kinzo yells through the door that they should stop hurting him and go away. He is terrified - these children are dangerously violent. He's also rather bloody at this point, and washes some of it off in the sink. The injury to his head has impaired his judgement. "A nice walk outside will improve my mood," thinks Kinzo, and leaves the study, locking the door. His window stays locked as well.

Around 8:40, while strolling outside, he finally collapses of his injuries beneath his study's window, and dies, but not before yelling the hated name: "JESSSICAAAA!"

Last edited at 17/10/23(Mon)21:55:58

>>20969
When Battler and Jessica arrived at Jessica's room, there was nobody there.

Sometime before 8:05, Nanjo relieved Kinzo of his study key. After that, Kinzo was unable to enter his study.

When "Kyrie remembered that at around 8:20, Dad had opened one of the windows and lit up a cigarette", she was not talking about the study window! It was some random other window.

Kinzo attempted to climb into his study through the window, and nearly succeeded - except the window was locked. Between 8:30 and 8:32, Battler and Jessica heard Kinzo talking to them from the other side of the study window, not from inside the study itself.

Between 8:30 and ~8:40, Kinzo finally fell down and died. Nanjo is the killer, it is because of him that Kinzo got locked out and had to attempt to climb.

EDIT: the blood in the sink may be simply older than 8:05.

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)02:40:25

>>20978
Just to note, the "Dad" that opened the window was Rudolf in the context of what you're bringing up. Battler is the one referring to Rudolf as "Dad" throughout the entire narration, so I just wanted to keep it consistent for the alibis as well, since he's still the one narrating. The window Rudolf had opened was a window in the parlor. Just figured I should note.

Secondly, it's important to note that the window to Kinzo's study was the only one in quite a big portion of the wall above the main entryway. Meaning that climbing out of some random window and trying to get to the study window would've been impossible - the distance is simply too great. The roof, as established, was also not an option. And Kinzo couldn't have simply used a ladder, since no ladder was found anywhere in the vicinity (or seen by Battler or Jessica when they were walking out).

Although these scenarios are pretty entertaining, not gonna lie.

Same as previous, except it was Krauss who relieved Kinzo of his study key, at dinner or before. When Krauss went to examine Kinzo, he saw that Kinzo had used a tool for climbing: ladder, rope-and-grappling-hook or similar. By the time others arrived at the corpse, Krauss had hidden it away (perhaps just thrown into the bushes).

>>20980
Battler and Jessica should've then seen some trace of the tool Kinzo had been using as they were leaving the mansion, no?

Fine, abandoning that for now; since it doesn't account for the blood in the sink, there's a good chance it's a false lead anyway.

Krauss poisoned Kinzo, probably by food at dinner.

All the blood is Kinzo's. The blood may have originated from Kinzo emitting it from various orifices, as the poison worked its way through his body - the sink is the natural place to vomit blood, at least. Kinzo, disoriented by the symptoms of the poison, fell down the window on his own power.

A bit before 8:40, Krauss went to investigate Kinzo's corpse and took Kinzo's study key. He then went into the mansion to tell Genji, Kumasawa and Gohda about Kinzo's death, which happened "a little past 8:40". During this time, Krauss was moving alone in the mansion, with Kinzo's study key! He went to Kinzo's study, locked the window, locked the door, came back outside. By the time Nanjo found Kinzo's study key on Kinzo's body, Krauss had put it back on him.

>>20982

Two things:


Krauss had not been away long enough getting the servants to be able to go to Kinzo's study, close the window, and come back down.

Second thing is - why go through the trouble? The natural assumption upon seeing the window open would've been suicide. And Krauss couldn't have known about everyone's alibis, much less that Kinzo would jump at all. It would've been a risk that would've opened a police investigation, making it much more likely that he would be caught after the poison was discovered. If it were ruled as a suicide though, Krauss would've been able to try and hold off on an autopsy and the poison's discovery.

Just seems like an unnecessary risk is all.

1. It has not been stated that Kinzo's study was locked when the group entered it!

2. It has not been stated that after being informed of Kinzo's death, the mansion people stuck together as a single group, with everyone in everyone else's view!

So, if Kinzo's study was unlocked, and some people (other than Krauss when announcing Kinzo's death to the kitchen, and Genji when going to the guesthouse) were outside the main group, then any of them could have entered the study and locked the window between 8:40 and the time of the meeting around the corpse (which would be roughly 9:01 (8:53+8min)).

It is true that I cannot see the motive in doing so right now, but eh.

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)06:07:08

>>20984
Fear not my sweet summer child, what was once unsaid shall now be

well

said

The door to Kinzo's study was locked when the group came to search it.

Had anyone besides Krauss or Genji left the initial group, their absence would've been made clear to the others. For the sake of convenience, the "initial group" refers to the adults, and then, after Krauss got the servants from the kitchen, included the three servants from the kitchen as well.

Sometime between 7:50 and 8:40, Kinzo fell very badly, for whatever reason, and received the injuries which Nanjo would later talk about. Kinzo survived the fall though!

Sometime between 8:30 and 8:32, Battler and Jessica make noises in front of the door to his study. Kinzo is present then in the study, and yells at them. The kids leave. This may have happened before or after the fall.

After the fall, Kinzo is bleeding, perhaps even vomiting blood, and washes some of the blood off in the sink.

Sometime between 8:32 and 8:40, Kinzo leaves his study, locks the door, the window stays locked. He walks outside, to a spot under the window of his study. Then, at 8:40, he screams and dies, because of a poison or trap! He had been poisoned or trapped by a murderer!

Anyone could have done it!

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)11:16:31

>>20987
Sometime between around 7:50 and around 8:40, Kinzo fell very badly, for whatever reason, and received the injuries which Nanjo would later talk about. However, the fall definitely killed him. In addition, Kinzo was not poisoned. If you wish to believe he had been killed by a trap - by all means; come up with one and let's see if I can deny it. Given the lack of cluing for such a trap, though, keep in mind it'd have to be something relatively reasonable.

I have no reason to respond to the rest; they're shots in the dark and even if I happened to confirm/deny/respond to even one of them, the ideas behind them don't solve the major portions of the crime/have lingering issues within them with this new bit of red.

I am willing to give you red, mind you... but I'm not exactly charity, either.

Perhaps a human was not needed to lock the window! There was strong wind, it could have blown the window shut! As for the lock on the window,
perhaps it was a weird lock that could even be triggered by the wind slamming the window shut! No human inside the study was necessary to close (EDIT: or lock) the window!

---

Also both common sense and "the only way to lock or unlock it would've been with the key" seem to suggest there's only 1 key to Kinzo's study (no extra key for Genji this time). Just in case, confirm this?

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)14:03:00

>>20992
The window to Kinzo's study can only be locked by a human hand, and from inside of the study. I suppose the idea of it being potentially closed by a gust of wind is fair enough, but - that wouldn't have locked it. And that same wind would've probably caused it to keep opening and closing.

Naturally, there is only one key to Kinzo's study.

In the sentence: "The three stayed in the servants' room until 8:50, when Genji showed up", according to whose watch was it 8:50? The mansion's, Nanjo's, Battler's?

>>20996
Let's go with, uhhhh, Nanjo's, but for good measure, let's also say there was a clock in the servants' room. In addition, Battler's own testimony more or less strongly supports that's when it happened.

After dinner (7:50), Nanjo entered Kinzo's study, took Kinzo's key, pushed Kinzo out of the window, but Kinzo did not fall - he held onto the outer frame of the window, or some other graspable ledges nearby. He was not able to move, however, without risk of falling.

Nanjo locked the window, exited the study, locked the door, easily arrived at guesthouse by 8:05.

When Battler and Jessica spoke to Kinzo, he was speaking to them from the other side of the window. He was very distressed and terrified, and being Kinzo refused all help.

A bit before 8:40 Kinzo finally lost grip, screamed and fell to his death.

Nanjo kept the key, and later declared to have found it on Kinzo's body.

>>21004
You'd think Battler and Jessica would've noticed him hanging above when they were leaving... but then again, it was quite high up, that window. So, let's just go with this:

There's no way Kinzo's voice would've reached Battler and Jessica, had he been speaking to them from outside of the window of his study.

Same as previous, except:

When Battler and Jessica spoke to Kinzo, it was a voice recorder. It was not found, because it was not actually IN the study - Battler describes Kinzo's voice thusly: "we both jumped at the sound of the Ushiromiya Family Head's voice filling the dead silence of the hallway". If it "fills the hallway", its origin must be unclear. So it could have been hidden in the hallway, or any of the neighbouring rooms.

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)16:59:30

>>21007
Everyone at the time, though, had a perfect alibi. Even if it had been a recording, there's no way for the culprit to have known exactly when the recording were to have been played, unless they were there to set it off themselves, which would've been impossible. And even then, if you were to find some sort of mechanism to trigger it, the "recording" did respond to Battler at the time, didn't it?

> "G-Grandfather... It's Battler. I want to talk to you about something."

> "No. Go away!"

(Walkie talkies are easier than phones; I don't actually remember much about how landline phones worked)

After dinner (7:50), Maria entered Kinzo's study, took Kinzo's key, pushed Kinzo out of the window, but Kinzo did not fall - he held onto the outer frame of the window, or some other graspable ledges nearby. He was not able to move, however, without risk of falling. Maria locked the window.

Maria installed a walkie talkie near the study, in the hallway or a neighboring room.

Maria exited the study, locked the door, left for the guesthouse. Maria arrived at the guesthouse by 8:00. With 6 minutes spent on running, there's 4 minutes spare for all the scheming, which sounds enough.

When Battler and Jessica spoke to Kinzo, it was Maria playing sound recordings through the walkie talkie, in reaction to Battler's statements. On Maria's side, this happened while in bathroom.

A bit before 8:40 Kinzo finally lost grip, screamed and fell to his death.

Later, during the great meetup around Kinzo's corpse, Maria put the key on Kinzo's body.

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)18:52:07

>>21011
It's... quite a stretch. And that's putting aside the fact that it's a plan made by an 8-year-old... there's just too many questions.

- The plan would've required that Maria anticipated someone coming to Kinzo's door and her shooing them away (reason for this: unknown). She had no reason to participate this - since Jessica and Battler's visit was decided on the spot and caused by everyone's lack of forethought, not by anything Maria potentially did -- and even then, the chances of the two of them trying to engage with Kinzo after the dinner display... were quite slim, weren't they?
- The plan would've required that whoever came by, came by at the exact same time she'd been in the bathroom (it couldn't have been the other way around, her going to the bathroom after hearing someone on the other side of her walkie-talkie, because George would've noticed it then; meaning the events had to have been coincidental). Which brings up the question of: what would've been the point of it? Precisely because, had anyone spoken been heard in the walkie-talkie in the study, it would've been immediately heard on her end, making it... well, game over.
- When would've Maria gotten the recordings of Kinzo? And for what purpose? As we've just established, being able to predict someone coming over would've been pretty low and rely on pure luck.
- How was she able to pull up the specific recording of "No, go away" so quickly after Battler had spoken?
- Wouldn't have the recordings had to have been played really loudly so that Jessica and Battler could've heard it through the walkie-talkie on their end? Wouldn't they have noted that the quality sounded... well, as if it was coming from a walkie-talkie?
- Wouldn't have George been tipped off (for the purposes of the game, assume that the bathroom is actually part of the room the cousins were sleeping in, meaning that the bathroom door would've been just a few meters away from George)?
- The plan itself would've also required Maria counting on Kinzo hanging off his window and never once calling for help. It also counted on him hanging onto it for quite a while.
- And finally, again - why? Why do it at all?

Kinzo was coughing up blood due to some sickness. He tells Battler to beat it cause he doesn't want to look weak. After those two left, he intended to go see Dr. Nanjo, but falls down the stairs, breaking lotsa bones. However, it wasn't instant death cause this is the Kinzo, so he gets up and makes it to the front of the mansion. That's when he realizes he won't make it and screams for help before collapsing.

Last edited at 17/10/25(Wed)13:02:19

>>21025
Kinzo's injuries could only have been caused by a fall from a great height. Falling down the stairs would not have caused them. Before you might suggest that instead of falling down the stairs he simply fell over the stair railing or something of the sort - the stairs weren't actually that high up for that to have been possible, either.

After "the fall definitely killed him", for some reason I assumed it killed him immediately. If not:

Any of Battler, Jessica, George, Maria, Nanjo, and possibly Shannon and Kanon (there is no statement about when Shannon and Kanon arrived at the guesthouse, except Nanjo must have observed them at 8:05) could be the murderer!

(EDIT: Before going to guesthouse,) Someone pushed Kinzo out of a second story window. It doesn't matter whether this is Kinzo's window or not.

Kinzo suffers injuries that will be deadly, but goes back to his study.

Battler and Jessica speak to Kinzo, Kinzo replies normally.

Sometime before 8:40, Kinzo wanders out, to a place in front of his window, screams and dies from injuries suffered beforehand.

Last edited at 17/10/25(Wed)13:44:52

Lettuce start with this
Kinzo tied a string to the window's lock, went out the window, closed the window and fell while holding the string, setting the windows' lock.
He also died instantly upon contact with the ground.

Last edited at 17/10/25(Wed)13:41:56

>>21027
After Kinzo's fall, if we were to assume his death wasn't instantaneous, he wouldn't have been capable of coherent speech due to his injuries.

There is actually a much more definitive way for me to deny this, but hey, where's the fun in that

>>21029
Alas, the red disagrees. As stated before: The window to Kinzo's study can only be locked by a human hand, and from inside of the study

Someone pushed Kinzo, locked the window,
and then hid inside one of the suits of armor.

You could argue alibis but then again culprit X ain't denied yet. Not that I think that's it but wouldn't be the first time you tried reverse psychology lol.

>>21032
I'm surprised it took someone so long to suggest this one.

There is, of course, no extra person.

The suit of armor theory is thus broken by the fact that anyone that could've possibly hidden in one... very clearly wasn't in any of them.

Before going to guesthouse, someone (Battler, Jessica, George, Maria, Nanjo, Shannon, Kanon) locked Kinzo inside a room other than his study.

Battler and Jessica speak to Kinzo, Kinzo replies from a nearby room, not the study, in a manner that "fills the hallway". Battler and Jessica naturally assume it came from the study.

Sometime before 8:40, Kinzo gets sick of being locked in. He screams and jumps from the window of that room. He then wanders to a place in front of his window and dies.

Instead of jumping, he may have attempted to climb from that room to his room, and failed (as he must have, as you previously stated). That would explain why his wound was on the back of his head.

>>21037
Might as well get rid of this root once and for all.

Kinzo's death was neither suicide nor accident! It was an act of deliberate murder! And, to make absolutely sure: Kinzo somehow being "manipulated" into jumping out of the window does not count as murder!

Before going to guesthouse, someone (Battler, Jessica, George, Maria, Nanjo, Shannon, Kanon) took Kinzo to a second story room other than his study, strapping him to a mechanism that could make him fall out of the window. A little catapult, if you really need a specific example.

Battler and Jessica speak to Kinzo, Kinzo replies from a nearby room, not the study, in a manner that "fills the hallway". Battler and Jessica naturally assume it came from the study.

A bit before 8:40, the mechanism activates, by timer or some Kinzo's action, let's say. Kinzo screams and falls on his back. He survives the immediate fall, crawls to a place in front of his window and dies.



EDIT: Fine, have a motivation: the killer really hated Kinzo, and how haughty he is. The killer wanted Kinzo's final moments to be spent thinking "I, Ushiromiya Kinzo, who I restored the Ushiromiya family from nothing, am now mere catapult ammunition! Woe is me! And not even a real catapult but a small one that can only shoot me out of the window. I would sooner die than see Battler and Jessica run to my help, lest they see me in this humiliation position. I should be feared, not pitied!" and then the catapult activates.

The murderer did not intend Kinzo to crawl to another place; he/she wanted everyone else to find and get a look at the whole neat catapult setup as well.

Last edited at 17/10/26(Thu)04:47:55

>>21054
Kinzo's fall was caused by direct human action. No remote mechanisms allowed.

After dinner (7:50), Jessica entered Kinzo's study, took Kinzo's key, pushed Kinzo out of the window. Kinzo fell and died. Perhaps there was a scuffle between Jessica and Kinzo - then perhaps Jessica caused Kinzo's head wound with a weapon, and washed the weapon in the sink, hence the blood in the sink.

Jessica locked the window, exited the study, locked the door, planted the key on Kinzo's corpse, left for the guesthouse. Jessica arrived at the guesthouse by 8:00. With 6 minutes spent on running, there's 4 minutes spare for all the scheming, which sounds enough.

On the second floor, in Jessica's room, there were 2 loudspeakers: loudspeaker 1 was directed to the outside, loudspeaker 2 was directed to the hallway.

When Jessica was in her room, and Battler was in front of her door, Jessica was preparing the timing for the recordings to be played from the loudspeakers. It is not a very conspicuous action, so Battler just didn't notice that. Or perhaps it was a quick thing to do, and Battler peeked in at the wrong times.

"As we approached the stairway, we happened to pass next to grandfather's study."

So Jessica knew in advance that they would go past it, because of its location. Jessica planned the timing for going near Kinzo's study beforehand - after all, she knew the distance between her room and Kinzo's study, and could make small talk to pad time.

"The thought occurred to me, as we passed his door, to knock it. "Wh... are you crazy?!" Jessica almost jumped at me."

Knowing how Battler's mischievous mind works, it was Jessica who tempted Battler to either knock or speak! Battler would probably not have approached Kinzo's door if Jessica had not reacted in such manner.

Kinzo's recordings were:

1) A generic response to knocking or talking near the door: "Will you kindly shut the hell up and go away?!" - even if Battler had said nothing, it was Jessica who spoke up, so Kinzo would have spoken in response to her. Luckily Battler did speak up, and thus thought Kinzo's response was prompted by him, but the plan would have worked even otherwise.

2) A generic response to anything said in response to 1: "No. Go away!". Even if nothing had been said by Battler in response to 1, Jessica would have said something.

Neither of these required any advance knowledge of the specific actions of Battler, only basic acting ability on Jessica's part.

Battler and Jessica got back to guesthouse.

A bit before 8:40, the other loudspeaker played a scream to the outside. Jessica planned the timing of it so that she would be back in the guesthouse by then. The rest is history.

>>21057
...Except that doesn't work.

Because Battler and Jessica would've thus needed to pass by Kinzo's corpse - not only when they were leaving, but when they were arriving to the mansion.

In addition, remember that it was Battler who decided on a whim to go with her. She had originally intended to go alone.

And when Jessica said "are you crazy?!" Battler had already knocked. He wasn't prompted by her.

> Because Battler and Jessica would've thus needed to pass by Kinzo's corpse - not only when they were leaving, but when they were arriving to the mansion.

Then, correction: Kinzo survived the fall, but was left immobile for a while. Jessica probably thought he was dead though. After Battler and Jessica had left, Kinzo crawled to the (EDIT: front of the mansion -> area under his window) on his own power, and died then. Jessica attacked Kinzo in his study, washed the weapon, took Kinzo to some other second story room, pushed Kinzo down that window, which would not have left him in an easily visible spot. Kinzo's study's window was then never opened - it was locked the whole time.

> In addition, remember that it was Battler who decided on a whim to go with her. She had originally intended to go alone.
Jessica improvised the thing with the loudspeakers. On the run.
I don't know her exact motivation for going back. But is it really necessary to state it? Confront something with a red if it's wrong.

> And when Jessica said "are you crazy?!" Battler had already knocked. He wasn't prompted by her.
Jessica tried to prompt him to approach the door, but the plan would have worked even if Battler didn't. She would have then made some loud noise on her own, which would come across as natural since she was chatting loudly just a moment before.

Last edited at 17/10/26(Thu)13:23:25

>>21059
Have some red you so desire, then.

Jessica was genuinely getting games from her room. She made no other actions while in there!

If you want to suggest that she'd prepared the loudspeakers somewhere else beforehand, that'll certainly be difficult, since you just admitted that the thing would've had to have been done on the fly. Especially the trick with the study. If you want to suggest that she'd somehow managed to set up the speakers in a scene that had happened just before Battler and Jessica got to the room but was never shown to you - I assure you, just as the narration implies - they were in each other sights until they got to the room.

Is Battler a valid suspect? As in, no detective's immunity and not considered to contradict the sincere tone of his narration?

Last edited at 17/10/26(Thu)13:43:11

>>21061
I'm always a sucker for Black Battler when there's a chance for one. So, sure, if you can come up with a way, go for it, fuck it.

Still - no flat-out lying in the narrative allowed. Or any convenient gaps in time and space. My gurantee at the beginning would still have to stand if you came up with a theory trying to pin it on him.

Sometime before all of it, Battler prepared two recordings of Kinzo talking.

After dinner (7:50), Battler entered Kinzo's study, attacked his head from behind with a weapon, causing the wound. The murder weapon got bloody, Battler washed the weapon in the study's sink, hence the blood in the sink. Kinzo likely fell unconscious from the blow to his head. Battler took Kinzo's key, exited the study, locked the door, and dragged Kinzo to a nearby room on the second floor. Battler then threw Kinzo out of that other room's window. The window in Kinzo's study remained locked the whole time. Kinzo fell, and suffered the injuries which would be later mentioned by Nanjo, but did not die just yet. He was probably still unconscious from the blow to his head. Battler likely thought he was dead though.

In the hallway there was a loudspeaker, with some kind of interface by which recordings could be timed to play from it.

Battler left for the guesthouse, and arrived at the guesthouse by 8:00. With 6 minutes spent on running, there was 4 minutes spare for all the scheming.

Battler wanted an alibi for not having murdered Kinzo (he didn't, yet, but he didn't know that). Then Jessica proposed to visit the mansion! That is even better than having proposed going there (with a witness) himself (to hear Kinzo talk, alive, after his last opportunity to murder him)!

When Jessica was in her room, and Battler was in front of her door, Battler was preparing the timing for the recordings to be played from the loudspeaker. Jessica was busy, so she didn't notice that, and setting up the loudspeaker didn't stop Battler from chatting with her through the door. Occasionally Battler peeked in, to make sure Jessica doesn't see what he's doing.

"As we approached the stairway, we happened to pass next to grandfather's study."

So Battler knew in advance that they would go past it, because of its location. Battler planned the timing for going near Kinzo's study beforehand - after all, he knew the distance between Jessica's room and Kinzo's study, and could make small talk to pad time.

Jessica finished her game-finding, they set for the stairs, Battler then approached Kinzo's door.

Battler knocked on the door.

Kinzo's recording, timed for this, said: "Will you kindly shut the hell up and go away?!", which would match up with Battler knocking on the door and a likely protest by Jessica (which is not necessary, but serves as icing on the cake - then Jessica can feel a bit guilty too for making noises!)

"G-Grandfather... It's Battler. I want to talk to you about something."

Kinzo's recording, timed for this, said: "No. Go away!".

Battler and Jessica went back to the guesthouse.

A bit before 8:40, Kinzo regained his consciousness, crawled to the area under his window, screams and dies. The rest is history.

Last edited at 17/10/26(Thu)14:17:24

>>21063
And God said to Noah:

"ive been holding on to this one for a while just watch lol its gonna make for great YT hits"

Unleashing the Great Flood upon the world.

No recordings of any kind were used throughout the duration of this entire game!

I thought I "had it", but there are still many loosely similar variants to try...

This one first:
The "a bit before 8:40" at which the scream is heard, is PM.
The "a little past 8:40" at which Krauss reaches the servants to tell them of Kinzo's death, is PM.
The "8:50" at which Genji reaches the servants' quarters to tell them of Kinzo's death, is PM.
The "8:53" at which Shannon reaches the cousins' room to tell them of Kinzo's death, is PM.
The "8:40" in Sometime between around 7:50 and around 8:40, Kinzo fell very badly, for whatever reason, and received the injuries which Nanjo would later talk about. is PM.

Nanjo's 8:18 (at which Kanon returns to servants' quarters) is PM.

Let's say the other timestamps are AM.

Then Kanon had enough time between 8:15 AM and 8:18 PM to kill Kinzo. The details of the method aren't really very restricted.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)00:27:55

Or, fine, in detail:

"Kanon remembered, as we he was reentering the room, seeing me and Jessica heading out for the mansion." is the murderer lying.

Sometime between 8:15 AM and 8:18 PM, probably after Battler and Jessica had left, Kanon entered the mansion, entered Kinzo's study, attacked his head from behind with a weapon, washed the weapon in the study's sink. Kinzo did not die from the blow, because he would die later from the fall's damage.

Kanon took Kinzo's key. Perhaps Kanon threw Kinzo out of the study window, then locked the window; perhaps he just used some other room's window, in which case Kanon either dragged Kinzo to his final location or left him to crawl there. Doesn't matter much either way. In any case, Kanon locked the study door, went outside, put the key back on Kinzo. But Kinzo was still alive then, because he would later scream at 8:40 PM. Of course, Kanon would have arrived at the servants' quarters by 8:18 PM.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)00:23:12

>>21066
All of the times in the story are PM.

Not all timestamps are from the same day. The scream at 8:40, and all the announcements of it, are from the day of the murder. The other timestamps are from some other day. For example, if Battler and Jessica arrived in the guesthouse at 8:40 of the previous day, Jessica could have gone to the mansion, killed Kinzo, returned to the guesthouse by 8:40 on the day of the murder.

>>21071
All timestamps are from the same day.

I mean Battler's narration just becomes bizarre and incoherent if the timestamps have been tampered with that much.

> I mean Battler's narration just becomes bizarre and incoherent if the timestamps have been tampered with that much.
orly?


The "8:30" and "8:32" on Battler's watch were set up by Battler with the sole purpose of deceiving the reader; he was honest in stating them, but as the culprit he manipulated them as well. Let's disregard those times.

Battler made two trips from the guesthouse to the mansion: one with Jessica, one after that.
Nanjo's 8:18 was correct, and Kanon was honest when declaring that he saw Battler and Jessica leave at that time.

8:18 + 6min = 8:24 (Battler and Jessica arrive at the mansion)
8:24 + "she'd been inside for maybe two to three minutes" = 8:26 (Jessica finishes searching her room)
8:26 + 6min = 8:32 (Battler and Jessica arrive back at the guesthouse)
8:32 + 6min = 8:38 (Battler goes back to the mansion)

Battler enters the mansion, enters Kinzo's study, attacks his head from behind with a weapon, washes the weapon in the study's sink. Kinzo did not die from the blow, because he would die later from the fall's damage.

Battler takes Kinzo's key. Perhaps Battler threw Kinzo out of the study window, then locked the window; perhaps he just used some other room's window, in which case Battler either dragged Kinzo to his final location or left him to crawl there. Doesn't matter much either way.

In any case, Battler locked the study door, went outside, put the key back on Kinzo. But Kinzo was still alive then, because he would later scream at 8:40 PM.

It would have been strange for Shannon to tarry very long after hearing of Kinzo's demise (8:50), so let's take Battler's 8:53 at face value - at that time Battler was back in the cousins' room.

8:38 + 2 minutes for scheming, let's say + 6min = 8:46 (Battler arrives back at the guesthouse).



EDIT: Fine, let's say Battler and Jessica arrive at 8:25, so that number matches the alibi section. Then all the other numbers are pushed just 1 min forward:
8:25
8:27
8:33
8:39 - Battler arrives back at the mansion


Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)01:49:17

>>21073
Ya rly

Battler's watch was accurate throughout the game. And besides, it's strange that he wouldn't have become an immediate suspect because of the fact he'd be absent from the cousins' group.

Nothing notable happens before 8:30.

After speaking to Battler and Jessica at around 8:30, Kinzo heads towards the guesthouse. He doesn't want to bump into Battler and Jessica, so he could leave the mansion through the window of some other second floor room, so that his own window could remain locked for reader's pleasure.

Running for 4 minutes, Kinzo arrives at 2/3 the way to the guesthouse. Then Kinzo climbs a tree.

"Aside from Maria once going to the bathroom for maybe a few minutes (George didn't know when it happened), they hadn't lost sight of each other."

At 8:32, Maria goes to the bathroom, climbs out of the bathroom window, then runs towards the mansion. She runs for 2 minutes, and at 8:34 meets up with Kinzo, who is up on a tree. Maria then throws a rock at Kinzo! Kinzo falls down and suffers heavy injuries. Happy with her aim, Maria runs back to the guesthouse bathroom. She returns at 8:36 - 4 minutes after entering the bathroom - not long enough to have made it to the mansion and back, so noone got suspicious!

Kinzo fell down, but did not die immediately. Kinzo spends the next 6 minutes walking back to the mansion (8 min * 2/3 = 5.3). Around 8:40 he arrives at the entrance, screams and dies.

>>21075
Maria was in the bathroom for two minutes, at most. She did not leave the bathroom through the bathroom window. In addition it's weird that neither Battler nor Jessica mentionrd seeing Kinzo walking on the path while walking back to the mansion...

... not all timestamps are in the same timezone and on the same Daylight Saving Time adjustment?

>>21078
All timestamps are in the same timezone and under same daylight savings adjustments.

After Battler and Jessica left, Kinzo climbed a tree outside. He couldn't get back down though! "Is this my end," thought Kinzo, and screamed in terror! So Krauss went outside, threw a rock at Kinzo, Kinzo fell down from the tree, touched the wound on the back of his head with his arm, and died. Krauss moved his corpse to the front of Kinzo's study window. Then Krauss screamed, and everyone else arrived.

>>21080
I think it's time to start properly cutting that pesky tree down.

By the time Krauss had stepped outside the mansion, Kinzo was already dead!

Kyrie remembered that at around 8:20, Dad had opened one of the windows and lit up a cigarette. However, at a certain point, the wind had begun to blow and caused the rain to get on Dad's suit, so he quickly threw the cigarette outside and shut it closed. Nothing else of significance happened.

In the above statement, Kyrie is lying; it was really she who was smoking, and it had been between 8:30 and 8:40. The window had a view to a tree, onto which Kinzo had climbed! Kyrie threw something onto that tree that caused Kinzo to fall down. Kinzo survived the immediate impact, crawled to the front of the mansion, screamed and died.

>>21082
Even if it was a part of events not everyone remembered instantly, someone that had been in the parlor would've definitely said something about one of them randomly throwing an object out of a window. If anything the fact not everyone remembered the event instantly was exactly because there was nothing noteworthy about it. Not to mention, Rudolf would've probably spoken up, had Kyrie been lying, since otherwise he would be labeled as an accomplice.

But, since I think it's about time to start being more decisive:

Kinzo's fall had been caused by a direct push. No thrown objects making him lose balance or anything of the sort allowed.

When the scream was heard, Kinzo was still inside (or outside on a ledge) and had not fallen. Upon exiting the parlor, Krauss went upstairs instead of out, and pushed Kinzo out of some second floor room window (or down the ledges immediately outside), to his death. Then Krauss jumped down as well, and moved Kinzo's body to the front of the mansion.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)09:30:55

>>21084
Kinzo would've had to have fallen from a great height, as suggested in the narration. Meaning that, had Krauss jumped down after pushing Kinzo from the height that was needed to give Kinzo his injuries, Krauss would've broken his legs (at the very least!). And no - he wouldn't have had enough time to run downstairs and go outside through the front door. He also wouldn't have had enough time to go down a floor flower and jump outside a window that was from a lesser height. And even then - Kinzo's study was the only window that would've gotten Kinzo where he was found. Meaning that, had Krauss pushed him out of another window, he would've needed to go and move the body, as well, taking up even more time.

And if you want to suggest he HAD pushed him out of the study window - you still have the issue of the locked window to deal with...

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)09:39:24

When the scream was heard, Kinzo was still inside (or outside on a ledge) and had not fallen. Upon exiting the parlor, Krauss went upstairs instead of out, to Kinzo's study. Krauss took Kinzo's key, pushed Kinzo out of the study window (or down the ledges immediately outside) to his death, locked the window, exited the study, locked the door, went to a neighbouring second floor room. The window there was at similar height, but allowed Krauss to climb down the drains, then jump halfway, as Battler did in the VN from Kinzo's room. Then Krauss placed the key back on Kinzo's body.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)09:57:27

>>21086
Might as well throw this one out, since I've gotten what theories I wanted out of it.

Krauss is not the culprit.

A start

Shannon and Kanon are the same person. Nanjo knows this.

8:18 - Yasu tells Nanjo they were going to change into Shannon/Kanon, so they would take a bit of time before getting back.
8:20 - Yasu leaves the guesthouse and goes to the mansion.
8:26/8:27 - Yasu arrives to the mansion a bit after Battler and Jessica, then hides somewhere in the second floor.
8:30 - Battler and Jessica hear Kinzo alive and leave.
8:31 - Yasu leaves his hiding spot and somehow convinces Kinzo to open the door, or maybe they already had the key.
8:32 - While Battler and Jessica leave, Yasu attacks Kinzo, who was washing his theet in the study's bathroom. Kinzo hadn't washed his theet in ages, so he bled while doing his thing.
8:33 - Yasu manages to push Kinzo out the window. Kinzo doesn't die instantly, he probably falls unconscious.
8:34 - Yasu sets the windows' lock, leaves the room, locks the door, and leaves the mansion.
8:35 - Once in the Entrance, Yasu puts the key in Kinzo's pocket and heads to the guesthouse.
8:40 - Kinzo wakes up, screams because of the pain, then dies.
8:42 - Yasu arrives to the guesthouse and dresses up as Shannon.
8:43 - After dressing up, they go to where Nanjo was, apologize for being late, and stay there.

The reason Nanjo did not say Shannon/Kanon left and took too long to come back was because he did not want people to suspect they were the same person, because as far as he knew, Yasu was changing his clothes.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)15:41:12

George is the culprit.

At 8:18, Battler and Jessica (B&J) leave the guesthouse. George and Maria (G&M) leave the mansion shortly after B&J, far enough behind them that B&J don't notice.

Between 8:25 and 8:32, while B&J are busy with Jessica's room, G&M enter Kinzo's study. B&J then speak to Kinzo through the door. Kinzo is most likely actually speaking to G&M, not B&J! G&M are in his study, Kinzo doesn't want them there, and rudely tells them to go away. B&J, frightened, leave.

Whatever transpires, Maria then goes to Kinzo's bathroom - she never becomes an accomplice due to this. The blood in the sink might be some Maria's magic stuff, or perhaps she coughed up blood, or bled from nose because Kinzo hit her? Meanwhile George takes Kinzo's key, goes with Kinzo to another second floor room, and pushes Kinzo out of that window. Kinzo falls onto a spot that is not visible from the entrance. Maria comes out of the bathroom, none the wiser. G&M leave the study, lock the door. The study's window was always locked.

G&M then both exit the mansion through some window, either a second floor window using drains, or perhaps a first floor window (depending on layout), or through the backdoor - and unlike B&J they are running, this way they can leave the mansion ahead of B&J. George plans all of this, Maria just follows George's lead and doesn't think much.

At 8:32, B&J leave the mansion, set off for the guesthouse. They walk at a leisurely pace and arrive at 8:40. G&M have already left, and by the time B&J reach the guesthouse, G&M are already in the cousins' room.

George and Maria were exactly where we'd left them, in the guest room. Aside from Maria once going to the bathroom for maybe a few minutes (George didn't know when it happened), they hadn't lost sight of each other.

At some point, Kinzo wakes up - he was only unconscious. He crawls to the mansion's entrance, and a bit before 8:40 screams and dies from injuries.

Either immediately after leaving, or after 8:53, George puts Kinzo's key back on his body.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)15:42:02

>>21088
Shannon and Kanon are seperate people - that is, two different human bodies. In addition, Nanjo hiding the fact that they'd left - regardless of what he might believe - would still make him an accomplice, because he's willingly and knowingly lying for the sake of the culprit, all the while knowing tha given the situation, they are the most likely suspect.

>>21090
Same goes for Maria in this scenario. She might be a kid, but she's still subject to the same rules as the others. The idea behind the alibis is that everyone participating corroborates another's story. That is, if Maria didn't deny it in the narrative - she supported it. In other words, she willingly lied about the movements of her and George - making her an accomplice, which is not allowed.

I understood the spirit of the game to be very different (focused on technical correctness of statements rather than realistic deniability). But I think I understand the spirit now, and will adjust the theories accordingly.

---

Battler's watch is accurate, so let's distrust all the other clocks.

Between 8:30 and 8:32, Battler and Jessica speak to Kinzo and turn to leave. Kinzo exits the study, locks the door, exits the building through a backdoor or some window other than the study's, heads for the guesthouse. He does all this quickly, so he gets a head start on Battler and Jessica, who never notice him. Kinzo's window remains locked.

Kinzo arrives at the guesthouse by 8:36 at earliest (8:30 + 6min = 8:36), before Battler and Jessica. He heads for the second floor. George is there in the cousins' room, and Maria is in the bathroom at the moment. Then George throws Kinzo out of the window of some second floor room, perhaps the cousins' room itself.

Battler, Jessica and everyone else will never know that Kinzo ever came to the guesthouse, because Battler and Jessica have arrived in the building already when Kinzo falls. They closely miss each other, B&J entering through the door and Kinzo exiting trough a window - that way they do not bump into each other on the path either. B&J could have arrived at 8:38 (8:32 + 6min = 8:38) at earliest.

Kinzo is heavily injured by the fall, but does not die immediately. The time is 8:38 at earliest. He goes back to the mansion.

At 8:53, Battler learns that Kinzo is dead. Then Genji must have started coming at 8:47 at latest (8:53 - 6min = 8:47). Then the injured Kinzo has 9 minutes (8:47 - 8:38 = 9min) to get back to the mansion, which might be enough? Anyway, by 8:47, Kinzo has arrived at the mansion entrance, screamed and died of injuries suffered from falling. The clocks that claim Krauss rushed out at 8:40 are simply wrong - it happened at 8:46 or 8:47.

Last edited at 17/10/28(Sat)01:09:49

>>21092
All of the times are accurate, all the clocks are correct, and nobody is mistaken about the times. The adults heard the scream and rushed outside at roughly a bit before 8:40, as stated in the narration.

Sometime between 7:50 and 8:18, Kinzo moved from the mansion to the guesthouse. The guesthouse people did not see him.

Sometime between 8:30 and 8:32, when B&J were at the study door, they heard Kinzo's voice. Kinzo was speaking over the phone, from the guesthouse.

Sometime between 8:30 and 8:32, while Maria was in the bathroom, George pushed Kinzo out of a second floor guesthouse window. Kinzo survived the impact. Kinzo moved from the guesthouse to the mansion, screamed and died. B&J did not bump into Kinzo because Kinzo was afraid of them, and hid behind a tree or something. The rain would have certainly helped him hide.

Last edited at 17/10/28(Sat)08:56:10

Kinzo was probably suffering from some ailment, and coughed up blood into the sink. So he went to the guesthouse to look for doctor Nanjo.

In the guesthouse, between 8:15 and 8:18, after Kanon last spoke on the phone to Rosa, Kinzo called him from his study. Kinzo told Kanon to leave the phone line open, and never mention it to anyone. Kanon, like the good furniture he is, did that. This was purely on Kinzo's orders, the murderer had nothing to do with it, so Kanon did not become an accomplice. Even after Kinzo's death, Kanon would follow Kinzo's order not to mention it to anyone. Kinzo in his study left the line open on his side as well. So, from 8:18 forward, there was an open phone line between the guesthouse and Kinzo's study.

At 8:25, when B&J arrived at the mansion, Kinzo left for the guesthouse. He left through a window or backdoor, so B&J and Kinzo missed each other.

At (8:25 + 6min =) 8:31, while B&J were busy with Jessica's room, Kinzo arrived at the guesthouse. He used the guesthouse phone to listen in if anything was happening in his study, and heard B&J make noises. He rudely told them to leave. Perhaps he didn't want anyone to find out he was not in the study, to hide his ailment from his relatives? Perhaps he was not sure if he locked the door, and wanted them to keep out? Perhaps he thought B&J were actually IN the study and wanted them to get out?

Anyway, Kinzo was there for Nanjo, so he went to the second floor - that's where Nanjo had been, before he moved down at 8:05.

Then, while Maria was in the bathroom, Kinzo went to the other second floor room he thought was occupied, and asked George where Nanjo is, and George pushed Kinzo out of a second floor guesthouse window! Kinzo survived the impact. Between 8:32 and 8:40, Kinzo moved from the guesthouse to the mansion, screamed and died. B&J did not bump into Kinzo because Kinzo was afraid of them after what George did, and perhaps his trip was a secret in the first place, so he hid behind a tree or something. The rain would have certainly helped him hide.

Last edited at 17/10/28(Sat)09:06:12

>>21096
I actually like the way everything in the story was incorporated here.

Unfortunately, putting aside the fact that Kinzo would've for some reason been standing by the phone for a bit, listening to the sound of his office, and then at some arbitrary point decided to head and find Nanjo; and ignoring that it's kind of weird how he originally didn't want anyone knowing he visited the guesthouse, hence why he snuck out, but went to George to ask to tell him where Nanjo was...

Battler and Jessica would've noticed if they had heard a voice that was coming out of any electornic device. In other words, in addition to recordings, this rules out phones, walkie-talkies, loudpsakers, etc. etc. And no, there is no wordplay in "Battler and Jessica" to suggest something like Battler not realizing it but Jessica realizing it -- they both would've noticed and realized. Meaning at least one should've said something about it.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)03:40:15

well. At least you did not contradict the part where, due to Kinzo's orders, Kanon was refusing to divulge information that would have led to the solution of the murder, even after Kinzo's death. Let's stretch that to the max

---

After dinner (7:50), Kinzo invited Nanjo to his study. Perhaps Kinzo was ill but didn't want the rest of the family to know, so he had ordered Kanon and Shannon to pretend Nanjo was in the guesthouse. So Nanjo did not go to the guesthouse, he went straight to the study, he was there with Kinzo until B&J left.

Let's say Kinzo would die instantly. In that case Nanjo took Kinzo's key and pushed Kinzo out of the the study window, a bit before 8:40. Kinzo screamed and died. Nanjo locked the window, locked the door, escaped the mansion (either through the entrance before Krauss, or a back door, or a first floor window, or a second floor window + drains).

Nanjo then went to the guesthouse. He arrived between 8:46 and 8:50 and went to the servants' quarters. Genji arrived at 8:50. Kinzo had told Kanon and Shannon to cover for Nanjo, so they did, even after Kinzo's death, because they are mere furniture and do not question orders.

Later, Nanjo "found" Kinzo's key "on his body" at the great meeting around the corpse.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)03:45:54

>>21098
I would've objected to Kanon fulfilling Kinzo's request and not mentioning it, but being tricked by Kinzo and not being able to see the full context was fair enough, I figured. So, I could see it happening, despite there being little to suggest it in the first place.

This, on the other hand, becomes lying - especially once you realize that Nanjo is the only possible culprit in that chain of events. Them not saying anything about it becomes less about fulfilling Kinzo request and more about lying regarding the culprit's actions. I mean, sure, you could argue one could respect Kinzo's will... but on the other hand, you'd think loyal servants would want their master's killer caught - especially when they're the only ones that could've possibly done it.

In any case -- the rule regarding the alibis overrides it all. They would've given up the fact that Nanjo hadn't actually been there.

I've seen "person" defined as a living human, I'll assume that is correct.

What is the definition of "culprit" - must it be a "person"?

If not:
Kinzo exited the study, and either went to another second floor room or climbed a tree outside. Then, an animal pushed him down.

Kinzo survived the immediate impact, and crawled to the entrance and screamed and died.

>>21100
There is something to be said about someone willing to keep getting back up so quickly after being punched down.

Alas, won't stop me from punching again.

The culprit must be a human being and must be alive at the time of the game's suspension.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)04:32:12

I tried to delay this as long as possible, but the time has come. Let us begin the
~ N A M E G A M E S ~

Gohda, Kumasawa and Genji are one person. They did whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, and readily confirmed their own alibi.

>>21102
No person - no human body - can have more than one name. No person can have more than one personality. In other words, nobody on the island suffers from multiple personality (or any sort of identity) disorders.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)04:42:44

No person - no human body - can have more than one name, but it is possible for an unperson to have a person's name.

For example: Ushiromiya Kinzo had a parrot that was also named Ushiromiya Kinzo, affectionally referred to as "Head of the Family" as well. That's what B&J heard, Kinzo EDIT: was dead had been pushed by then. EDIT: Then, if Kinzo did not need to speak later, Nanjo could've pushed him off before 8:05.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)04:54:39

>>21104
No "unperson" (I'm just going to define it as "something other than human" I guess) shares a name with anyone else on the island. But, more importantly, Kinzo did not own a parrot, or any other animal which would've been able to reproduce his voice, nor had such an animal ever been in Kinzo's study.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)05:02:47

The distance between the mansion and the guesthouse could be traveled in less than 6 min, using a vehicle. Let's say Kinzo used a bicycle, because it's small and makes no noise.

Between 8:30 and 8:32, B&J spoke to Kinzo and turned to leave. Kinzo exited the study, locked the door, exited the building through a backdoor or some window other than the study's, headed for the guesthouse. He did all this quickly, so he got a head start on B&J, who never noticed him. Kinzo's window remained locked.

Kinzo used a bicycle. 2 min to the guesthouse, perhaps? Then he arrived at the guesthouse by 8:32, minimum. Kinzo went in, and George threw him out of the window of some second floor room while Maria was in the bathroom.

Kinzo survived the impact. Between 8:32 and 8:40, Kinzo moved from the guesthouse to the mansion. He didn't even really need the bicycle for this - George could have disposed of it back at the guesthouse. B&J did not bump into Kinzo because Kinzo was afraid of them after what George did, and perhaps his trip was a secret in the first place, so he hid behind a tree or something. The rain would have certainly helped him hide.

Then Kinzo was at the entrance, and screamed and died.

Someone drugged the others and temporarily got out of their alibi that way. Works best for the servants in the kitchen, but should work for everyone except the parlor people, really.

>>21106
For your hard efforts, I reward you with

this red

Kinzo's fall happened at the mansion. Kinzo did not secretly go to the guesthouse at any point.

>>21107
Had somebody been knocked out, they would have been aware of it happening immediately after waking up. And if they were aware of it, especially given the circumstances, and assuming at least one person per group has to be innocent because of the rules, they would've told the others - meaning it's impossible for anyone to have been knocked out.

Sometime between 8:29 and 8:31, Maria entered to bathroom (for 2 minutes). George then used some very fast vehicle (motorcycle?) to travel to the mansion in 1 minute, entered the second floor through a second floor window just after Kinzo had spoken from the study, pushed Kinzo out of the window, left the building before B&J (so they never bumped into each other), and used the other 1 minute to get back. By the time Maria came out, he was back.

Alternatively, a 1 minute shortcut (through the trees?) - the path used by Battler was just particularly winding.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)12:19:49

>>21109
I see we're well on our way to small bombs now.

There are no means of reaching the mansion from the guesthouse in less than six minutes. Same applies vice-versa.

Perhaps not everyone was able to identify the rooms they were in!

"Let's play blanket monsters!" said George to Maria.
"What's that?" asked Maria.
"It means, we cover you in a blanket and carry you around the guesthouse! It will be fun!"

Maria believes literally everything the cousins tell her. So George covered Maria in a blanket, carried her to the mansion, killed Kinzo,
carried her back again. Maria thought she was in the guesthouse the entire time.

>>21111
almost tempted to just say "no" in red and leave it at that tbh

Everyone was able to identify the rooms they were in. The Ushiromiyas pride themselves on situational awareness when out of meta scenes, don't y'know?

Battler pushed Kinzo out his window either right after dinner or later when Jessica was busy looking through her room. (wouldn't take that long if the study is nearby.) Kinzo either had some condition that made it hard to speak so he could not call for help or simply chose not to do so.
Anyway, Kinzo managed to hold on the the windowsill outside and ultimately fell when others heard his scream.
The reason Battler kept checking his watch was to make sure he'd have it right for his alibi. When going back, the idea occurred to him to knock on the door to the study and use ventriloquism to make it seem like Kinzo was still alive. Outside he quickly opened his umbrella to make sure Jessica wouldn't see Kinzo above them.

There's no way Kinzo's voice would've reached Battler and Jessica, had he been speaking to them from outside of the window of his study.

Let's get around that:

Before arriving at the guesthouse, (Battler/Jessica/George/Maria/Nanjo/Kanon/Shannon) went upstairs in the mansion and pushed Kinzo out of the window of a second floor room (not the study). Kinzo did not fall to the ground though - he caught onto some features immediately outside the window. The window of that other room remained open, so Kinzo's voice could come through, to be heard by B&J.

A bit before 8:40, he finally fell screaming, crawled to the entrance and died.

>>21113
>>21114
in the words of the famous poet

Ozaki

...Close enough. The two theories answer the questions I would've raised for them individually and it would've been pretty obvious.

Battler pushed Kinzo out of a random window in the mansion. Kinzo broke a fuckton of bones and as stated in the red wouldn't have been able to speak. But he was alive. Battler, at the time, believed him to be dead.

When Jessica suggested to go to get games, he agreed, to check if anyone had found Kinzo's body. It was only as they were about to leave that the thought occured to him that he could maybe create the illusion that Kinzo was still alive. If he did that, and stayed with the cousins, with Jessica there to witness Kinzo's voice, he would've had a perfect alibi for when Kinzo's body was eventually found.

So, as he knocked the door, Battler used his ventriloquism skills to imitate Kinzo's voice. The first time, Jessica didn't his lips move properly because she was scared of Kinzo and because they'd both, as Battler put it, "jumped", making it harder to see those tiny lip movements. The second time, Battler had already turned his head to the door, making it even harder to see his face. (Whether he'd turned his back to Jessica or just was showing a side of his face is, I think, irrelevant, since Jessica's attention would've been focused more on the door anyway.)

Shortly after they left the mansion, Kinzo had crawled to the front of the door. Weak and exhausted, and feeling he was going to die,
he did the only thing Ushiromiya Kinzo would do in such a situation.

Be dramatic as fuck and scream to the heavens.

Then, he died.

The blood on his hand was from him holding the wound on his head,
suggesting he'd been alive after his fall.

The blood in the sink was Kinzo's, but the cause was a terminal illness and was only there to misdirect.

Battler's motive was that if Kinzo died - Krauss would immediately gain succession and the arguments about the inheritence would stop.
Can't negotiate you getting inheritance if the old guy is already dead and the succession is already written in ink, after all.

I would've also accepted Jessica, hence why it was not necessary to present the culprit's name.

There are, you'll notice, no real lies in the narrative. Battler's plan was made on a whim, as was the knock.
The voice heard was Kinzo's... it just never came from Kinzo. Battler was quite skilled in his ventriloquism. Still, you will also notice that I generally never referred to the voice heard as Kinzo's in red. (And when I did, it was for a hypothetical situation.) And while Battler is technically an "animal" if you want to be super specific, Kinzo did not own him.
At no point does the narration reveal Battler's thoughts on the murder itself - what speculation Battler has is handled entirely by dialogue.

And yes, the entire alibi shtick was just random bullshit I made up on the spot while writing the story.