>>21059
Have some red you so desire, then.

Jessica was genuinely getting games from her room. She made no other actions while in there!

If you want to suggest that she'd prepared the loudspeakers somewhere else beforehand, that'll certainly be difficult, since you just admitted that the thing would've had to have been done on the fly. Especially the trick with the study. If you want to suggest that she'd somehow managed to set up the speakers in a scene that had happened just before Battler and Jessica got to the room but was never shown to you - I assure you, just as the narration implies - they were in each other sights until they got to the room.

Is Battler a valid suspect? As in, no detective's immunity and not considered to contradict the sincere tone of his narration?

Last edited at 17/10/26(Thu)13:43:11

>>21061
I'm always a sucker for Black Battler when there's a chance for one. So, sure, if you can come up with a way, go for it, fuck it.

Still - no flat-out lying in the narrative allowed. Or any convenient gaps in time and space. My gurantee at the beginning would still have to stand if you came up with a theory trying to pin it on him.

Sometime before all of it, Battler prepared two recordings of Kinzo talking.

After dinner (7:50), Battler entered Kinzo's study, attacked his head from behind with a weapon, causing the wound. The murder weapon got bloody, Battler washed the weapon in the study's sink, hence the blood in the sink. Kinzo likely fell unconscious from the blow to his head. Battler took Kinzo's key, exited the study, locked the door, and dragged Kinzo to a nearby room on the second floor. Battler then threw Kinzo out of that other room's window. The window in Kinzo's study remained locked the whole time. Kinzo fell, and suffered the injuries which would be later mentioned by Nanjo, but did not die just yet. He was probably still unconscious from the blow to his head. Battler likely thought he was dead though.

In the hallway there was a loudspeaker, with some kind of interface by which recordings could be timed to play from it.

Battler left for the guesthouse, and arrived at the guesthouse by 8:00. With 6 minutes spent on running, there was 4 minutes spare for all the scheming.

Battler wanted an alibi for not having murdered Kinzo (he didn't, yet, but he didn't know that). Then Jessica proposed to visit the mansion! That is even better than having proposed going there (with a witness) himself (to hear Kinzo talk, alive, after his last opportunity to murder him)!

When Jessica was in her room, and Battler was in front of her door, Battler was preparing the timing for the recordings to be played from the loudspeaker. Jessica was busy, so she didn't notice that, and setting up the loudspeaker didn't stop Battler from chatting with her through the door. Occasionally Battler peeked in, to make sure Jessica doesn't see what he's doing.

"As we approached the stairway, we happened to pass next to grandfather's study."

So Battler knew in advance that they would go past it, because of its location. Battler planned the timing for going near Kinzo's study beforehand - after all, he knew the distance between Jessica's room and Kinzo's study, and could make small talk to pad time.

Jessica finished her game-finding, they set for the stairs, Battler then approached Kinzo's door.

Battler knocked on the door.

Kinzo's recording, timed for this, said: "Will you kindly shut the hell up and go away?!", which would match up with Battler knocking on the door and a likely protest by Jessica (which is not necessary, but serves as icing on the cake - then Jessica can feel a bit guilty too for making noises!)

"G-Grandfather... It's Battler. I want to talk to you about something."

Kinzo's recording, timed for this, said: "No. Go away!".

Battler and Jessica went back to the guesthouse.

A bit before 8:40, Kinzo regained his consciousness, crawled to the area under his window, screams and dies. The rest is history.

Last edited at 17/10/26(Thu)14:17:24

>>21063
And God said to Noah:

"ive been holding on to this one for a while just watch lol its gonna make for great YT hits"

Unleashing the Great Flood upon the world.

No recordings of any kind were used throughout the duration of this entire game!

I thought I "had it", but there are still many loosely similar variants to try...

This one first:
The "a bit before 8:40" at which the scream is heard, is PM.
The "a little past 8:40" at which Krauss reaches the servants to tell them of Kinzo's death, is PM.
The "8:50" at which Genji reaches the servants' quarters to tell them of Kinzo's death, is PM.
The "8:53" at which Shannon reaches the cousins' room to tell them of Kinzo's death, is PM.
The "8:40" in Sometime between around 7:50 and around 8:40, Kinzo fell very badly, for whatever reason, and received the injuries which Nanjo would later talk about. is PM.

Nanjo's 8:18 (at which Kanon returns to servants' quarters) is PM.

Let's say the other timestamps are AM.

Then Kanon had enough time between 8:15 AM and 8:18 PM to kill Kinzo. The details of the method aren't really very restricted.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)00:27:55

Or, fine, in detail:

"Kanon remembered, as we he was reentering the room, seeing me and Jessica heading out for the mansion." is the murderer lying.

Sometime between 8:15 AM and 8:18 PM, probably after Battler and Jessica had left, Kanon entered the mansion, entered Kinzo's study, attacked his head from behind with a weapon, washed the weapon in the study's sink. Kinzo did not die from the blow, because he would die later from the fall's damage.

Kanon took Kinzo's key. Perhaps Kanon threw Kinzo out of the study window, then locked the window; perhaps he just used some other room's window, in which case Kanon either dragged Kinzo to his final location or left him to crawl there. Doesn't matter much either way. In any case, Kanon locked the study door, went outside, put the key back on Kinzo. But Kinzo was still alive then, because he would later scream at 8:40 PM. Of course, Kanon would have arrived at the servants' quarters by 8:18 PM.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)00:23:12

>>21066
All of the times in the story are PM.

Not all timestamps are from the same day. The scream at 8:40, and all the announcements of it, are from the day of the murder. The other timestamps are from some other day. For example, if Battler and Jessica arrived in the guesthouse at 8:40 of the previous day, Jessica could have gone to the mansion, killed Kinzo, returned to the guesthouse by 8:40 on the day of the murder.

>>21071
All timestamps are from the same day.

I mean Battler's narration just becomes bizarre and incoherent if the timestamps have been tampered with that much.

> I mean Battler's narration just becomes bizarre and incoherent if the timestamps have been tampered with that much.
orly?


The "8:30" and "8:32" on Battler's watch were set up by Battler with the sole purpose of deceiving the reader; he was honest in stating them, but as the culprit he manipulated them as well. Let's disregard those times.

Battler made two trips from the guesthouse to the mansion: one with Jessica, one after that.
Nanjo's 8:18 was correct, and Kanon was honest when declaring that he saw Battler and Jessica leave at that time.

8:18 + 6min = 8:24 (Battler and Jessica arrive at the mansion)
8:24 + "she'd been inside for maybe two to three minutes" = 8:26 (Jessica finishes searching her room)
8:26 + 6min = 8:32 (Battler and Jessica arrive back at the guesthouse)
8:32 + 6min = 8:38 (Battler goes back to the mansion)

Battler enters the mansion, enters Kinzo's study, attacks his head from behind with a weapon, washes the weapon in the study's sink. Kinzo did not die from the blow, because he would die later from the fall's damage.

Battler takes Kinzo's key. Perhaps Battler threw Kinzo out of the study window, then locked the window; perhaps he just used some other room's window, in which case Battler either dragged Kinzo to his final location or left him to crawl there. Doesn't matter much either way.

In any case, Battler locked the study door, went outside, put the key back on Kinzo. But Kinzo was still alive then, because he would later scream at 8:40 PM.

It would have been strange for Shannon to tarry very long after hearing of Kinzo's demise (8:50), so let's take Battler's 8:53 at face value - at that time Battler was back in the cousins' room.

8:38 + 2 minutes for scheming, let's say + 6min = 8:46 (Battler arrives back at the guesthouse).



EDIT: Fine, let's say Battler and Jessica arrive at 8:25, so that number matches the alibi section. Then all the other numbers are pushed just 1 min forward:
8:25
8:27
8:33
8:39 - Battler arrives back at the mansion


Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)01:49:17

>>21073
Ya rly

Battler's watch was accurate throughout the game. And besides, it's strange that he wouldn't have become an immediate suspect because of the fact he'd be absent from the cousins' group.

Nothing notable happens before 8:30.

After speaking to Battler and Jessica at around 8:30, Kinzo heads towards the guesthouse. He doesn't want to bump into Battler and Jessica, so he could leave the mansion through the window of some other second floor room, so that his own window could remain locked for reader's pleasure.

Running for 4 minutes, Kinzo arrives at 2/3 the way to the guesthouse. Then Kinzo climbs a tree.

"Aside from Maria once going to the bathroom for maybe a few minutes (George didn't know when it happened), they hadn't lost sight of each other."

At 8:32, Maria goes to the bathroom, climbs out of the bathroom window, then runs towards the mansion. She runs for 2 minutes, and at 8:34 meets up with Kinzo, who is up on a tree. Maria then throws a rock at Kinzo! Kinzo falls down and suffers heavy injuries. Happy with her aim, Maria runs back to the guesthouse bathroom. She returns at 8:36 - 4 minutes after entering the bathroom - not long enough to have made it to the mansion and back, so noone got suspicious!

Kinzo fell down, but did not die immediately. Kinzo spends the next 6 minutes walking back to the mansion (8 min * 2/3 = 5.3). Around 8:40 he arrives at the entrance, screams and dies.

>>21075
Maria was in the bathroom for two minutes, at most. She did not leave the bathroom through the bathroom window. In addition it's weird that neither Battler nor Jessica mentionrd seeing Kinzo walking on the path while walking back to the mansion...

... not all timestamps are in the same timezone and on the same Daylight Saving Time adjustment?

>>21078
All timestamps are in the same timezone and under same daylight savings adjustments.

After Battler and Jessica left, Kinzo climbed a tree outside. He couldn't get back down though! "Is this my end," thought Kinzo, and screamed in terror! So Krauss went outside, threw a rock at Kinzo, Kinzo fell down from the tree, touched the wound on the back of his head with his arm, and died. Krauss moved his corpse to the front of Kinzo's study window. Then Krauss screamed, and everyone else arrived.

>>21080
I think it's time to start properly cutting that pesky tree down.

By the time Krauss had stepped outside the mansion, Kinzo was already dead!

Kyrie remembered that at around 8:20, Dad had opened one of the windows and lit up a cigarette. However, at a certain point, the wind had begun to blow and caused the rain to get on Dad's suit, so he quickly threw the cigarette outside and shut it closed. Nothing else of significance happened.

In the above statement, Kyrie is lying; it was really she who was smoking, and it had been between 8:30 and 8:40. The window had a view to a tree, onto which Kinzo had climbed! Kyrie threw something onto that tree that caused Kinzo to fall down. Kinzo survived the immediate impact, crawled to the front of the mansion, screamed and died.

>>21082
Even if it was a part of events not everyone remembered instantly, someone that had been in the parlor would've definitely said something about one of them randomly throwing an object out of a window. If anything the fact not everyone remembered the event instantly was exactly because there was nothing noteworthy about it. Not to mention, Rudolf would've probably spoken up, had Kyrie been lying, since otherwise he would be labeled as an accomplice.

But, since I think it's about time to start being more decisive:

Kinzo's fall had been caused by a direct push. No thrown objects making him lose balance or anything of the sort allowed.

When the scream was heard, Kinzo was still inside (or outside on a ledge) and had not fallen. Upon exiting the parlor, Krauss went upstairs instead of out, and pushed Kinzo out of some second floor room window (or down the ledges immediately outside), to his death. Then Krauss jumped down as well, and moved Kinzo's body to the front of the mansion.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)09:30:55

>>21084
Kinzo would've had to have fallen from a great height, as suggested in the narration. Meaning that, had Krauss jumped down after pushing Kinzo from the height that was needed to give Kinzo his injuries, Krauss would've broken his legs (at the very least!). And no - he wouldn't have had enough time to run downstairs and go outside through the front door. He also wouldn't have had enough time to go down a floor flower and jump outside a window that was from a lesser height. And even then - Kinzo's study was the only window that would've gotten Kinzo where he was found. Meaning that, had Krauss pushed him out of another window, he would've needed to go and move the body, as well, taking up even more time.

And if you want to suggest he HAD pushed him out of the study window - you still have the issue of the locked window to deal with...

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)09:39:24

When the scream was heard, Kinzo was still inside (or outside on a ledge) and had not fallen. Upon exiting the parlor, Krauss went upstairs instead of out, to Kinzo's study. Krauss took Kinzo's key, pushed Kinzo out of the study window (or down the ledges immediately outside) to his death, locked the window, exited the study, locked the door, went to a neighbouring second floor room. The window there was at similar height, but allowed Krauss to climb down the drains, then jump halfway, as Battler did in the VN from Kinzo's room. Then Krauss placed the key back on Kinzo's body.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)09:57:27

>>21086
Might as well throw this one out, since I've gotten what theories I wanted out of it.

Krauss is not the culprit.

A start

Shannon and Kanon are the same person. Nanjo knows this.

8:18 - Yasu tells Nanjo they were going to change into Shannon/Kanon, so they would take a bit of time before getting back.
8:20 - Yasu leaves the guesthouse and goes to the mansion.
8:26/8:27 - Yasu arrives to the mansion a bit after Battler and Jessica, then hides somewhere in the second floor.
8:30 - Battler and Jessica hear Kinzo alive and leave.
8:31 - Yasu leaves his hiding spot and somehow convinces Kinzo to open the door, or maybe they already had the key.
8:32 - While Battler and Jessica leave, Yasu attacks Kinzo, who was washing his theet in the study's bathroom. Kinzo hadn't washed his theet in ages, so he bled while doing his thing.
8:33 - Yasu manages to push Kinzo out the window. Kinzo doesn't die instantly, he probably falls unconscious.
8:34 - Yasu sets the windows' lock, leaves the room, locks the door, and leaves the mansion.
8:35 - Once in the Entrance, Yasu puts the key in Kinzo's pocket and heads to the guesthouse.
8:40 - Kinzo wakes up, screams because of the pain, then dies.
8:42 - Yasu arrives to the guesthouse and dresses up as Shannon.
8:43 - After dressing up, they go to where Nanjo was, apologize for being late, and stay there.

The reason Nanjo did not say Shannon/Kanon left and took too long to come back was because he did not want people to suspect they were the same person, because as far as he knew, Yasu was changing his clothes.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)15:41:12

George is the culprit.

At 8:18, Battler and Jessica (B&J) leave the guesthouse. George and Maria (G&M) leave the mansion shortly after B&J, far enough behind them that B&J don't notice.

Between 8:25 and 8:32, while B&J are busy with Jessica's room, G&M enter Kinzo's study. B&J then speak to Kinzo through the door. Kinzo is most likely actually speaking to G&M, not B&J! G&M are in his study, Kinzo doesn't want them there, and rudely tells them to go away. B&J, frightened, leave.

Whatever transpires, Maria then goes to Kinzo's bathroom - she never becomes an accomplice due to this. The blood in the sink might be some Maria's magic stuff, or perhaps she coughed up blood, or bled from nose because Kinzo hit her? Meanwhile George takes Kinzo's key, goes with Kinzo to another second floor room, and pushes Kinzo out of that window. Kinzo falls onto a spot that is not visible from the entrance. Maria comes out of the bathroom, none the wiser. G&M leave the study, lock the door. The study's window was always locked.

G&M then both exit the mansion through some window, either a second floor window using drains, or perhaps a first floor window (depending on layout), or through the backdoor - and unlike B&J they are running, this way they can leave the mansion ahead of B&J. George plans all of this, Maria just follows George's lead and doesn't think much.

At 8:32, B&J leave the mansion, set off for the guesthouse. They walk at a leisurely pace and arrive at 8:40. G&M have already left, and by the time B&J reach the guesthouse, G&M are already in the cousins' room.

George and Maria were exactly where we'd left them, in the guest room. Aside from Maria once going to the bathroom for maybe a few minutes (George didn't know when it happened), they hadn't lost sight of each other.

At some point, Kinzo wakes up - he was only unconscious. He crawls to the mansion's entrance, and a bit before 8:40 screams and dies from injuries.

Either immediately after leaving, or after 8:53, George puts Kinzo's key back on his body.

Last edited at 17/10/27(Fri)15:42:02

>>21088
Shannon and Kanon are seperate people - that is, two different human bodies. In addition, Nanjo hiding the fact that they'd left - regardless of what he might believe - would still make him an accomplice, because he's willingly and knowingly lying for the sake of the culprit, all the while knowing tha given the situation, they are the most likely suspect.

>>21090
Same goes for Maria in this scenario. She might be a kid, but she's still subject to the same rules as the others. The idea behind the alibis is that everyone participating corroborates another's story. That is, if Maria didn't deny it in the narrative - she supported it. In other words, she willingly lied about the movements of her and George - making her an accomplice, which is not allowed.

I understood the spirit of the game to be very different (focused on technical correctness of statements rather than realistic deniability). But I think I understand the spirit now, and will adjust the theories accordingly.

---

Battler's watch is accurate, so let's distrust all the other clocks.

Between 8:30 and 8:32, Battler and Jessica speak to Kinzo and turn to leave. Kinzo exits the study, locks the door, exits the building through a backdoor or some window other than the study's, heads for the guesthouse. He does all this quickly, so he gets a head start on Battler and Jessica, who never notice him. Kinzo's window remains locked.

Kinzo arrives at the guesthouse by 8:36 at earliest (8:30 + 6min = 8:36), before Battler and Jessica. He heads for the second floor. George is there in the cousins' room, and Maria is in the bathroom at the moment. Then George throws Kinzo out of the window of some second floor room, perhaps the cousins' room itself.

Battler, Jessica and everyone else will never know that Kinzo ever came to the guesthouse, because Battler and Jessica have arrived in the building already when Kinzo falls. They closely miss each other, B&J entering through the door and Kinzo exiting trough a window - that way they do not bump into each other on the path either. B&J could have arrived at 8:38 (8:32 + 6min = 8:38) at earliest.

Kinzo is heavily injured by the fall, but does not die immediately. The time is 8:38 at earliest. He goes back to the mansion.

At 8:53, Battler learns that Kinzo is dead. Then Genji must have started coming at 8:47 at latest (8:53 - 6min = 8:47). Then the injured Kinzo has 9 minutes (8:47 - 8:38 = 9min) to get back to the mansion, which might be enough? Anyway, by 8:47, Kinzo has arrived at the mansion entrance, screamed and died of injuries suffered from falling. The clocks that claim Krauss rushed out at 8:40 are simply wrong - it happened at 8:46 or 8:47.

Last edited at 17/10/28(Sat)01:09:49

>>21092
All of the times are accurate, all the clocks are correct, and nobody is mistaken about the times. The adults heard the scream and rushed outside at roughly a bit before 8:40, as stated in the narration.

Sometime between 7:50 and 8:18, Kinzo moved from the mansion to the guesthouse. The guesthouse people did not see him.

Sometime between 8:30 and 8:32, when B&J were at the study door, they heard Kinzo's voice. Kinzo was speaking over the phone, from the guesthouse.

Sometime between 8:30 and 8:32, while Maria was in the bathroom, George pushed Kinzo out of a second floor guesthouse window. Kinzo survived the impact. Kinzo moved from the guesthouse to the mansion, screamed and died. B&J did not bump into Kinzo because Kinzo was afraid of them, and hid behind a tree or something. The rain would have certainly helped him hide.

Last edited at 17/10/28(Sat)08:56:10

Kinzo was probably suffering from some ailment, and coughed up blood into the sink. So he went to the guesthouse to look for doctor Nanjo.

In the guesthouse, between 8:15 and 8:18, after Kanon last spoke on the phone to Rosa, Kinzo called him from his study. Kinzo told Kanon to leave the phone line open, and never mention it to anyone. Kanon, like the good furniture he is, did that. This was purely on Kinzo's orders, the murderer had nothing to do with it, so Kanon did not become an accomplice. Even after Kinzo's death, Kanon would follow Kinzo's order not to mention it to anyone. Kinzo in his study left the line open on his side as well. So, from 8:18 forward, there was an open phone line between the guesthouse and Kinzo's study.

At 8:25, when B&J arrived at the mansion, Kinzo left for the guesthouse. He left through a window or backdoor, so B&J and Kinzo missed each other.

At (8:25 + 6min =) 8:31, while B&J were busy with Jessica's room, Kinzo arrived at the guesthouse. He used the guesthouse phone to listen in if anything was happening in his study, and heard B&J make noises. He rudely told them to leave. Perhaps he didn't want anyone to find out he was not in the study, to hide his ailment from his relatives? Perhaps he was not sure if he locked the door, and wanted them to keep out? Perhaps he thought B&J were actually IN the study and wanted them to get out?

Anyway, Kinzo was there for Nanjo, so he went to the second floor - that's where Nanjo had been, before he moved down at 8:05.

Then, while Maria was in the bathroom, Kinzo went to the other second floor room he thought was occupied, and asked George where Nanjo is, and George pushed Kinzo out of a second floor guesthouse window! Kinzo survived the impact. Between 8:32 and 8:40, Kinzo moved from the guesthouse to the mansion, screamed and died. B&J did not bump into Kinzo because Kinzo was afraid of them after what George did, and perhaps his trip was a secret in the first place, so he hid behind a tree or something. The rain would have certainly helped him hide.

Last edited at 17/10/28(Sat)09:06:12

>>21096
I actually like the way everything in the story was incorporated here.

Unfortunately, putting aside the fact that Kinzo would've for some reason been standing by the phone for a bit, listening to the sound of his office, and then at some arbitrary point decided to head and find Nanjo; and ignoring that it's kind of weird how he originally didn't want anyone knowing he visited the guesthouse, hence why he snuck out, but went to George to ask to tell him where Nanjo was...

Battler and Jessica would've noticed if they had heard a voice that was coming out of any electornic device. In other words, in addition to recordings, this rules out phones, walkie-talkies, loudpsakers, etc. etc. And no, there is no wordplay in "Battler and Jessica" to suggest something like Battler not realizing it but Jessica realizing it -- they both would've noticed and realized. Meaning at least one should've said something about it.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)03:40:15

well. At least you did not contradict the part where, due to Kinzo's orders, Kanon was refusing to divulge information that would have led to the solution of the murder, even after Kinzo's death. Let's stretch that to the max

---

After dinner (7:50), Kinzo invited Nanjo to his study. Perhaps Kinzo was ill but didn't want the rest of the family to know, so he had ordered Kanon and Shannon to pretend Nanjo was in the guesthouse. So Nanjo did not go to the guesthouse, he went straight to the study, he was there with Kinzo until B&J left.

Let's say Kinzo would die instantly. In that case Nanjo took Kinzo's key and pushed Kinzo out of the the study window, a bit before 8:40. Kinzo screamed and died. Nanjo locked the window, locked the door, escaped the mansion (either through the entrance before Krauss, or a back door, or a first floor window, or a second floor window + drains).

Nanjo then went to the guesthouse. He arrived between 8:46 and 8:50 and went to the servants' quarters. Genji arrived at 8:50. Kinzo had told Kanon and Shannon to cover for Nanjo, so they did, even after Kinzo's death, because they are mere furniture and do not question orders.

Later, Nanjo "found" Kinzo's key "on his body" at the great meeting around the corpse.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)03:45:54

>>21098
I would've objected to Kanon fulfilling Kinzo's request and not mentioning it, but being tricked by Kinzo and not being able to see the full context was fair enough, I figured. So, I could see it happening, despite there being little to suggest it in the first place.

This, on the other hand, becomes lying - especially once you realize that Nanjo is the only possible culprit in that chain of events. Them not saying anything about it becomes less about fulfilling Kinzo request and more about lying regarding the culprit's actions. I mean, sure, you could argue one could respect Kinzo's will... but on the other hand, you'd think loyal servants would want their master's killer caught - especially when they're the only ones that could've possibly done it.

In any case -- the rule regarding the alibis overrides it all. They would've given up the fact that Nanjo hadn't actually been there.

I've seen "person" defined as a living human, I'll assume that is correct.

What is the definition of "culprit" - must it be a "person"?

If not:
Kinzo exited the study, and either went to another second floor room or climbed a tree outside. Then, an animal pushed him down.

Kinzo survived the immediate impact, and crawled to the entrance and screamed and died.

>>21100
There is something to be said about someone willing to keep getting back up so quickly after being punched down.

Alas, won't stop me from punching again.

The culprit must be a human being and must be alive at the time of the game's suspension.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)04:32:12

I tried to delay this as long as possible, but the time has come. Let us begin the
~ N A M E G A M E S ~

Gohda, Kumasawa and Genji are one person. They did whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, and readily confirmed their own alibi.

>>21102
No person - no human body - can have more than one name. No person can have more than one personality. In other words, nobody on the island suffers from multiple personality (or any sort of identity) disorders.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)04:42:44

No person - no human body - can have more than one name, but it is possible for an unperson to have a person's name.

For example: Ushiromiya Kinzo had a parrot that was also named Ushiromiya Kinzo, affectionally referred to as "Head of the Family" as well. That's what B&J heard, Kinzo EDIT: was dead had been pushed by then. EDIT: Then, if Kinzo did not need to speak later, Nanjo could've pushed him off before 8:05.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)04:54:39

>>21104
No "unperson" (I'm just going to define it as "something other than human" I guess) shares a name with anyone else on the island. But, more importantly, Kinzo did not own a parrot, or any other animal which would've been able to reproduce his voice, nor had such an animal ever been in Kinzo's study.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)05:02:47

The distance between the mansion and the guesthouse could be traveled in less than 6 min, using a vehicle. Let's say Kinzo used a bicycle, because it's small and makes no noise.

Between 8:30 and 8:32, B&J spoke to Kinzo and turned to leave. Kinzo exited the study, locked the door, exited the building through a backdoor or some window other than the study's, headed for the guesthouse. He did all this quickly, so he got a head start on B&J, who never noticed him. Kinzo's window remained locked.

Kinzo used a bicycle. 2 min to the guesthouse, perhaps? Then he arrived at the guesthouse by 8:32, minimum. Kinzo went in, and George threw him out of the window of some second floor room while Maria was in the bathroom.

Kinzo survived the impact. Between 8:32 and 8:40, Kinzo moved from the guesthouse to the mansion. He didn't even really need the bicycle for this - George could have disposed of it back at the guesthouse. B&J did not bump into Kinzo because Kinzo was afraid of them after what George did, and perhaps his trip was a secret in the first place, so he hid behind a tree or something. The rain would have certainly helped him hide.

Then Kinzo was at the entrance, and screamed and died.

Someone drugged the others and temporarily got out of their alibi that way. Works best for the servants in the kitchen, but should work for everyone except the parlor people, really.

>>21106
For your hard efforts, I reward you with

this red

Kinzo's fall happened at the mansion. Kinzo did not secretly go to the guesthouse at any point.

>>21107
Had somebody been knocked out, they would have been aware of it happening immediately after waking up. And if they were aware of it, especially given the circumstances, and assuming at least one person per group has to be innocent because of the rules, they would've told the others - meaning it's impossible for anyone to have been knocked out.

Sometime between 8:29 and 8:31, Maria entered to bathroom (for 2 minutes). George then used some very fast vehicle (motorcycle?) to travel to the mansion in 1 minute, entered the second floor through a second floor window just after Kinzo had spoken from the study, pushed Kinzo out of the window, left the building before B&J (so they never bumped into each other), and used the other 1 minute to get back. By the time Maria came out, he was back.

Alternatively, a 1 minute shortcut (through the trees?) - the path used by Battler was just particularly winding.

Last edited at 17/10/29(Sun)12:19:49

>>21109
I see we're well on our way to small bombs now.

There are no means of reaching the mansion from the guesthouse in less than six minutes. Same applies vice-versa.

Perhaps not everyone was able to identify the rooms they were in!

"Let's play blanket monsters!" said George to Maria.
"What's that?" asked Maria.
"It means, we cover you in a blanket and carry you around the guesthouse! It will be fun!"

Maria believes literally everything the cousins tell her. So George covered Maria in a blanket, carried her to the mansion, killed Kinzo,
carried her back again. Maria thought she was in the guesthouse the entire time.

>>21111
almost tempted to just say "no" in red and leave it at that tbh

Everyone was able to identify the rooms they were in. The Ushiromiyas pride themselves on situational awareness when out of meta scenes, don't y'know?

Battler pushed Kinzo out his window either right after dinner or later when Jessica was busy looking through her room. (wouldn't take that long if the study is nearby.) Kinzo either had some condition that made it hard to speak so he could not call for help or simply chose not to do so.
Anyway, Kinzo managed to hold on the the windowsill outside and ultimately fell when others heard his scream.
The reason Battler kept checking his watch was to make sure he'd have it right for his alibi. When going back, the idea occurred to him to knock on the door to the study and use ventriloquism to make it seem like Kinzo was still alive. Outside he quickly opened his umbrella to make sure Jessica wouldn't see Kinzo above them.

There's no way Kinzo's voice would've reached Battler and Jessica, had he been speaking to them from outside of the window of his study.

Let's get around that:

Before arriving at the guesthouse, (Battler/Jessica/George/Maria/Nanjo/Kanon/Shannon) went upstairs in the mansion and pushed Kinzo out of the window of a second floor room (not the study). Kinzo did not fall to the ground though - he caught onto some features immediately outside the window. The window of that other room remained open, so Kinzo's voice could come through, to be heard by B&J.

A bit before 8:40, he finally fell screaming, crawled to the entrance and died.

>>21113
>>21114
in the words of the famous poet

Ozaki

...Close enough. The two theories answer the questions I would've raised for them individually and it would've been pretty obvious.

Battler pushed Kinzo out of a random window in the mansion. Kinzo broke a fuckton of bones and as stated in the red wouldn't have been able to speak. But he was alive. Battler, at the time, believed him to be dead.

When Jessica suggested to go to get games, he agreed, to check if anyone had found Kinzo's body. It was only as they were about to leave that the thought occured to him that he could maybe create the illusion that Kinzo was still alive. If he did that, and stayed with the cousins, with Jessica there to witness Kinzo's voice, he would've had a perfect alibi for when Kinzo's body was eventually found.

So, as he knocked the door, Battler used his ventriloquism skills to imitate Kinzo's voice. The first time, Jessica didn't his lips move properly because she was scared of Kinzo and because they'd both, as Battler put it, "jumped", making it harder to see those tiny lip movements. The second time, Battler had already turned his head to the door, making it even harder to see his face. (Whether he'd turned his back to Jessica or just was showing a side of his face is, I think, irrelevant, since Jessica's attention would've been focused more on the door anyway.)

Shortly after they left the mansion, Kinzo had crawled to the front of the door. Weak and exhausted, and feeling he was going to die,
he did the only thing Ushiromiya Kinzo would do in such a situation.

Be dramatic as fuck and scream to the heavens.

Then, he died.

The blood on his hand was from him holding the wound on his head,
suggesting he'd been alive after his fall.

The blood in the sink was Kinzo's, but the cause was a terminal illness and was only there to misdirect.

Battler's motive was that if Kinzo died - Krauss would immediately gain succession and the arguments about the inheritence would stop.
Can't negotiate you getting inheritance if the old guy is already dead and the succession is already written in ink, after all.

I would've also accepted Jessica, hence why it was not necessary to present the culprit's name.

There are, you'll notice, no real lies in the narrative. Battler's plan was made on a whim, as was the knock.
The voice heard was Kinzo's... it just never came from Kinzo. Battler was quite skilled in his ventriloquism. Still, you will also notice that I generally never referred to the voice heard as Kinzo's in red. (And when I did, it was for a hypothetical situation.) And while Battler is technically an "animal" if you want to be super specific, Kinzo did not own him.
At no point does the narration reveal Battler's thoughts on the murder itself - what speculation Battler has is handled entirely by dialogue.

And yes, the entire alibi shtick was just random bullshit I made up on the spot while writing the story.