Welcome back DWaM. I was wondering if you would ever return.

I've finished reading the game and I have to say I've enjoyed it very much, both in terms of the literary work and the mysteries. At this time I have thought of a few plausible theories for each closed room, but before I present one I'd thought I just point out a few typos. Not that it really matters much to me, but I know some people wish to have their works perfect.

"They wre both liars and cheats when you got right down to it, weren't they?"
"One wihch the reader would refuse the solution"
"You could see it in how her bodly lightly trembled."

Anyway, I recall that in your last game people just wrote out all of their theories in one large post and forced you to respond in large walls of text. For these types of games, taking it slowly, one at a time I feel is a much better type of play style. Additionally I'm going to spoiler out my theories since I know some people don't bother in trying to solve a mystery if the answer key is out in the open, so I hope this helps, even if only slightly, to stop that from happening.

So this being said I was going to start with Krauss and Natsuhi, but I noticed that counts as the 4th so I will start with the First Problem instead.


It was stated a few times that Rosa was acting as suspected, we know later that this was probably from the cake.

"You could've practically smelled the tension on her. You could hear it in her voice. You could see it in how her bodly lightly trembled. Nobody else seemed to notice."
"She tried to dodge the question, but the rapid movement in her eyes practically screamed "yes" to my assumptions."

If we take a look at the piece of paper found in the room, it becomes very obvious that it is a Caesar cipher, good work mixing it up a bit though, took me a few tries. What it ends up saying is, "MY DEAREST MARIA I WILL MEET YOU AT YOUR ROOM AT AROUND ELEVEN I WILL KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR TWICE IF YOUR MOTHER IS ASLEEP LET ME IN IF NOT ASK TO GO TO THE BATHROOM

So Battler simply waited for this, entered the room and threw Rosa outside of her window onto the ground, after dealing a fatal blow or just using the impact from gravity(maybe it wasn't just a drug but a poison too). He locked the door with her key, and left out in the confession the fact that he went to place it on her corpse before going to inform the others of the body.

That is my first theory for this problem. What do you say?

>>16019
Ah, well... I'm afraid I simply must've gotten caught up with other stuff and eventually stopped checking in here for new stuff. And whenever I did, I always seemed to miss the games where people could gather around and speculate... In any case, thanks for pointing those few typos out. (The fact that out of 53 pages I got as few as those is a good thing, admittedly...)

Now then, onto your theory.

Well, you managed to see through the cypher quite quickly (it will be quite a blow to my tester who never managed to figure it out, though they're quite bad at codes, by their own admission...

In any case, onto your theory.

I'm having trouble putting together exactly when all of this was possible for Battler to do - aside from planting the key on Rosa's corpse. Remember, if you will, what happened when Shannon came into Battler's room:

"She commented how Rosa and Maria had gone into their room (in fact, I could tell you that much myself, as I heard the sound of their door being locked)"

This would imply that Shannon had seen Rosa sometime before entering Battler's room. The fact that Battler had heard the key turn also suggests that Rosa was alive (or, at the very least, that Maria was concscious to lock the door). Also, remember, if you will, that this took place at around 10 PM (9:50, going strictly by the narration). Battler and Shannon were in each other's sights for pretty much the entire following hour they were in the room (that much, he confirmed himself). Thus, because the note you've decoded suggests that the "visitor" was going to come at around 11 PM makes it impossible for Battler to be that person, no? Because at around 11 Battler and Shannon were still in Battler's room.

So when could've Battler killed Rosa?

If it was before Shannon came into Battler's room, how do you explain the fact that she seems to be fairly certain that Rosa and Maria went to their room and the fact that Battler heard the key to the room turn? In addition, how would you explain the scream they both heard coming from outside?

Last edited at 14/08/29(Fri)11:42:04

>>16020
I am no grammar expert, so I may not have gotten all of them.

You bring up a fair point, I will admit I have neglected the times a bit, despite this I do have a few possible solutions to these problems.

If we are to assume Shannon isn't affiliated in any way, it is possible my original theory could work.

In regards to Rosa -
"Please don't make any misassumptions - she really was dead by the time I reached her."
This could refer to when he brought Nanjo and others to the body.

It may have been possible that instead, Battler decided to enlist in Rosa's help. Instead of Rosa's actions pointing towards being drugged, perhaps she was already under the impression murder had happened. Battler suggested to her that she could fake her death with some child sedatives (ones that Maria probably takes) in order to lure out the culprit. So, when they saw Rosa out of the window she wasn't really dead. Instead of placing the key onto her corpse during time he is alone, Battler went and actually killed her before anyone noticed.

---

Another, albeit silly theory is that it is possible Rosa was killed by poison, and Maria threw the body out the window on orders from Battler. Room was locked from the inside by Maria. Of course Battler could have went and killed her after she fell down just the same if poison wasn't the case.

---

Finally, Shannon could have made the same assumption that Battler had. The sound of the lock simply implying that both Rosa and Maria of them were present, when in fact it could have only been Maria who entered the room at that time.

---

>>16021
Hm...

Unfortunately, it seems that your theory still has problems.

For one, this is what Battler states when it comes to Shannon's involvement with the crimes:

"I will, however, say it here and now that there was no talk about murder - Shannon was completely innocent of whatever had or was about to happen. She, in no way, willingly participated in my "schemes", as some would like to put it. I will not allow her name to be slandered by the blood-hungry hounds of the police and speculators. Do you understand? She was innocent in all of this. Her only crime was trying to stay alive."

And, them not actually being together the entire time would make the narration a lie - which isn't the case.

Secondly, it's very much doubtful Battler could've killed Rosa after she was seen from the window of his room. Let's think of it like this:

Let's say that Rosa had stepped out of the guesthouse sometime between 10:55 and 11 (and that is the only time it could've happened, because remember that among Genji, Kanon, Gohda and Nanjo - none had seen Rosa's body where she was apparently found). This, once again, makes sense given that Gohda says he had heard the front door opening. However, keep in mind that that was the only time he had heard it - it is very safe to assume that if anyone else had gone through the door, he would've heard it, as well (after all, it was only within a span of five minutes or so).

Now, here's the problem:

If Battler had stepped outside of the guesthouse after leaving Shannon in his room instead of going directly to the lounge, killed Rosa, went back into the guesthouse and then alerted the others, Gohda would've surely heard the door opening three times (or, at the very least, two times). You could claim that Rosa had left the door open when she first stepped out, however - Gohda would've probably noticed that, as well and brought it up. (The sound of the rain outside would've tipped him off, no?)

If Battler had went downstairs, warned the others, ran outside and then killed Rosa - well, it's highly unlikely that out of... 7 (if memory serves?) people that came out that nobody had seen him or at least noticed something suspicious. (Such as, taking her head and bashing it against the ground...)

--

My questions regarding the second possibility (with Maria, that is) are:
1) Would Maria have really been physically strong enough to get Rosa out of the window?
2) Why would Maria actually go through and help Battler, of all people? Yes, she had been relatively unfazed by the death of her mother in the past, but I don't believe she ever actively helped in its execution (especially since doing something like this would deny the existence of "magic" first-hand).
3) If Maria had locked the door, then how did it end up back on Rosa's body? Er, admittedly, not the strongest of my questions since I actually can come up with a couple of answers myself, but still - something worth pointing out.

--

Finally, your third suggestion falls in with the previously mentioned problems on when Battler could've approached Rosa's body and then killed her.

>>16018
Give me a little while and I'll expose this game to the certainty that is truth.

Hey there, a pleasure to catch you, and to get a head start on this game before the rest of /seacats/ realizes it's been posted. If you don't mind, I intend to use Ozaki's approach, and solve this one problem at a time, if that's all right.



The cipher reveals that someone planned to have Maria let them into her room despite it being locked at around 11. Judging by the nature of the note (it mentions nothing about what Maria was to do next, if anything), I am presuming that the culprit's intention to kill Rosa as soon as they entered.

I feel that the trick here is that the time is not specified exactly on the note. The culprit arrived before the group from the mansion, who arrived at 10:55. Maria let them into her room, and they then drugged her, probably by means of a drink given to her in the coffee cup. At this time, Rosa was asleep, so it was a simple matter for the culprit to toss her out the window. The culprit then leaves, but not before taking the key to the room, and locking it.

The culprit then leaves the guesthouse, and is heard by Gohda. They head straight to Rosa's corpse, plant the key, and then scream, attracting the attention of everyone inside, before fleeing back to the mansion.

>>16024
I have no doubt you will. The question only becomes if you'll accept the truth when you discover it...?

>>16025
Just one tiiiiiiny problem with your theory. Tiny. Teeny, really.

There is only one culprit. Battler says he killed Rosa. The narration does not lie, so he must've certainly killed her.

Thus, Battler must be the culprit.

However, Battler, at the time you have just described, has a perfect alibi!

>>16026

Alright, the trick then. Battler is the culprit in that he was aware thaat the murders were going to happen, but never took action to prevent them from occurring. My basis for this is that in the start of the tale, he only strangled Krauss until 'he appeared dead'.

Can you blame me for trying?

>>16027
It is said in the foreword: "The culprit" is a human being who kills.

In addition, you have a lot of trouble if you apply that assumption to the claims he makes and stuff he does later down the line in the story...

>>16028

Very well. Back to the drawing board for a while for me.

A more serious attempt now. Again, this is specifically targeting the first problem.

When Battler answered the door at 9:50, he makes remarks to the effect that it was someone unexpected, and that it made his fears of being caught grow. Furthermore, the comments about the time of his and Shannon's discussion are inconsistent with her arriving at 9:50, most notably, he refers to her having seen Rosa alive 'little less than an hour ago' at around 11:00 (because everyone, including the group that arrived after 10:55, heard the scream, we can put the time of it occurring at 10:56 at the earliest.), when in fact it should be 'little more than an hour ago'. Battler later comments that he was talking with Shannon from 'around 10' onwards. This gives a time-frame large enough for someone else to have visited him at 9:50, and for Shannon to have visited shortly after.

I propose Rosa visited at this time, and he then killed her and dropped the body out the window before Shannon arrived. The rest plays out as in Ozaki's theory.

Maria screams at 11, (because she was instructed to by Battler, who confirms himself to be the writer of the cipher, or simply because she notices her mother outside.) and shortly after Battler enters the room and drugs her with the aforementioned coffee cup. He takes the key, locks the room, and plants it on Rosa upon reaching her body.

I'm starting to realize the truth behind this gameboard, however I need a little more time to build my case up.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)00:59:17

>>16035
Hm, unfortunately, there are two major problems with that theory:

One is that if Battler had dropped Rosa out the window before Shannon had arrived, then surely Genji, Gohda, Kanon and Nanjo would've seen her body (as stated in the narration, at least three of them had to be telling the truth and they all confirmed it). However, they explicitly say they saw no such thing as they were approaching the guesthouse at around 10:55.

The second is regarding Maria's scream. When would've Battler told her to do this? Keep in mind that if his intention was to kill Rosa shortly before 10 then surely he would've told Maria he would be visiting at that time so he could tell her to scream, no? In addition, why didn't he simply include it in the cipher that he wants her to open the window and scream at around 11?

Remember that he couldn't have told her to scream after exiting his room, because... well, the scream was heard before that.

>>16061
Interesting. Well, looking forward to it.

>>16018

That was a very enjoyable read, mister DWaM.

Anyway, it's not really my style to take things one mystery at a time so i'll just blurt out my theory for everything all at once, if you're okay with that. At this point i'm about 90% confident that I know what's going on, so since you seem to be a fan of codes, i'll give my answer using one. A very simple, one letter code, that is. If i'm right about things, the meaning of that one letter should be obvious to you, and this way it won't ruin the fun of playing the game for the other players either.

Of course, since i'm not actually providing any details with my answer, i don't really believe i'm entitled to any kind of response from you(i'm ignoring your rules, after all), but if you do happen to feel like winking in my general direction or something, feel free. I have to say, if you really did do what I think you did, I think it's quite a satisfying solution.

So here you go:

X

>>16063
Hm... Well, if that means what I think it means, then... yeah, you got it. ...Probably. Well, I'm pretty sure it is.

Still - I'm curious if we are actually talking about the same thing here... Hrm.

Well, if you ever decide to elaborate - my skype's DWaM (blew your mind right there, didn't I) so you can reach me there if you don't want to do so publicly.

>>16062
Let's start with something simple to get back into my groove.

Battler had received a call from Kyrie quite early in the story, telling him to start with the plan and that Natsuhi retired to her room because she was not feeling well. Seeing as this was a good time as any, he took the key to their room and snuck out the window after the phone call.

What proceeded to occur is speculation, however I believe Natsuhi had met with someone previously, namely a piece of furniture by the name of Kanon. As she talked with this kid, she heard a knock at the door. This knock was in fact Battler.

Kanon hid somewhere in the room, figure under the bed, and watched what transpired. Battler ended up pushing Natushi who falls and hits the back of her neck on the desk.

Hearing a noise, Battler quickly rushes over to the closet to hide, waiting to see who else shows up. At this moment Krauss comes in and sees his wife laying dead against a desk, in his grief he kneels down and begins to check on her to see if she's dead or not. At this moment Battler exited the closet slowly and grabbed some rope off a curtain, readying it he strikes at Krauss and begins to strangle him! From there Krauss grabs a candlestick and smacks Battler upside the head. After Krauss was killed Battler left.

Kanon escaped from under the bed and was in a shock, quickly he looked around and found Natsuhi's journal. Telling Kanon indirectly, Natushi was going to attempt to warn him of Krauss' plan, which was to marry him off to his daughter Jessica, kill him and throw him over the very same cliff Jessica's dog fell off of, and claim Jessica inherits the family title by way of marriage laws.

Actually, forgot to add on that Kanon took the page out of Natsuhi's diary.

Alternatively I may be taking this mystery's answer the entirely wrong way and instead could say DWaM, you're the true killer.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)07:45:33

>>16065
An interesting start, however - one with quite a bit of problems:

1) Why did the cadlestick end up Natsuhi's hand in the end? You could claim that Kanon had apparently put it in her hand, but for what reason? After all, Krauss had no other apparent external injuries and the candlestick had no blood - so the reason of "he put it there to make it look like the two fought each other" doesn't really work. And the idea of "Natsuhi fought back against her killer" seems a bit of an unnecessary thing to do. After all, the killer's presence is already suggested by the fact that... Krauss and her are both dead, no?
2) How exactly did Kanon escape from the room? Battler locked it (we won't discuss how the key got back into the room just yet) from the outside when he was leaving (he did not lie about this, I assure you) and the chain had to have been set from the inside. So how did Kanon escape? And remember, he had to have escaped because by the time Battler had returned to George's room in the guesthouse - Kanon was there. Naturally, I could ask you "how did Battler never cross paths with Kanon on his way back", but I'm sure that you would claim that Kanon simply found a different, faster route back to the guesthouse which, while not suggested in the narration, I cannot directly disprove.
3) Why didn't Kanon ultimately say anything? If he was truly in the room and saw Battler murdering two people, surely he would've brought it up at some point. Sure, he had reason to hate Krauss and want him dead (at least, according to your theory), but even he must've eventually realized that Battler was not going to stop there. What would've been his reason for letting everyone else die? There was nothing to suggest Battler would save Jessica, in the end, and if Kanon intended to stop him at the very end - why didn't he do so when there were more people alive to take him on? It seems like a strange thing to do, is all I'm saying...

In any case, I assure you that I'm not the killer.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)07:58:30

>>16066
Hmm, I see. So off the tracks I was. No matter, I was merely trying to draw a conclusive time frame. Rephrasing, Battler had entered the room however there was no sign of Natsuhi or anyone else for that matter. Hearing a sound Battler took the rope off a curtain and waited in the closet, just then Krauss enters the room and the strangulation happens. Battler is hit up side his head, he wipes off the candlestick off on the curtain and then proceeds to return to the guesthouse.

Later on Natushi goes into the room only to find Krauss dead, in distress she closes and locks the door with the chain and calls someone up, asking for them to deliver the key. Later on due to a trap laid by Battler, Natsuhi was murdered.

>>16067
Hold it now.
How did Natsuhi get inside the room, again? Battler had locked the door after leaving the room and returning to the guesthouse.

And before we start the fun with the keys, let me remind you:

"Ah, the keys. I frankly don't know why I'm mentioning this, but it should be noted that Krauss' key was the only key to his bedroom. Usually, in detective stories and large mansions, there are master keys, but as far as I know - there were none on this island. (And, I assure you, I would've probably ended up knowing at some point). In fact, every door has only one key that can possibly unlock or lock it. No duplicates existed at any point, I'm pretty sure (and if they did, they were not used for any of the murders)."

Thus, if Natsuhi had come to their room after Battler had left, there's no way she could've entered the room and set the chain!

Ah, also, claiming a "Trap X" won't really work here. If a trap was used on this gameboard, sufficient evidence and clues were provided as to how exactly it worked, I assure you.

>>16068
Hmm, I'm starting to get a clearer picture now.

Natsuhi had attempted to enter her room but could not because it was locked, so she went back to the guesthouse and took the key from there. This was the sound of the door opening and closing that Gohda heard. She returned with the key and opened it, upon seeing her husband collapsed she ran over in fear of him being dead. However he was merely incapacitated and told her it was Battler that had done this. In defense she props him up against the edge of the bed and grabs the candlestick.

>>16069
A couple of questions, then:

1) From who and how did Natsuhi get the key by going to the guesthouse? I doubt Battler would have just given it to someone. And there's no reason for her to assume it was in the guesthouse - after all, Battler must've gotten it from Krauss' person. It would be pretty inconvenient to keep the key to your own room at such a distance, I mean...
2) If Natsuhi had been the one to unlock the door, locked it and set the chain, why did the key end up in Krauss' pocket?
3) Why did she set the chain and lock the door, anyway? After all, she saw her husband half-dead and he told her the name of his killer, according to you? Why barricade yourself? Why not call for help instantly?
4) And assuming she had good reason to do all that, how did Battler end up killing her?

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)08:43:19

>>16070
Oh, I misread something interesting. Battler did not return Krauss' key, in fact he left it somewhere else.

Furthermore, Krauss was still alive by the time Battler had left the room and had called Natushi to the room. Before Battler had left though he had tied his rope to X object and left the window open. He then climbed back up after walking past the entrance and the parlor room where his parents and the rest of the adults were. Climbing up the ladder and into Krauss' room he saw Natsuhi and Krauss, the latter being tended to. Natsuhi grabbed the candlestick in defense and a scuffle ensued where Battler eventually pushed Natsuhi into the desk where she hit her neck and died.

Krauss was powerless and was re-strangled. Afterward Battler put the key into his pocket, chain locked the door and jumped out the window! Adding on that he did indeed set up Krauss' body against the end of the bed and had used his umbrella to avoid the dust on the windowsill to be affected by the rain of the open window.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)09:17:26

>>16071
Except - the window was closed when the bodies were discovered and the dust on the windowsill was undistrubed. In fact, I'll quote you the narration:

"Also, it was impossible for anyone to have been able to enter the room from the outside through the window. It's just too high - I don't think there's that long of a ladder for this kind of height on the island. In addition, the dust on the windowsill was undisturbed."

Regardless of Battler had used to leave through the window the second time (or even entered it, as you've just seen there exists no ladder high enough to get in back again) - the window could not have been closed from the outside.

Oh, and just jumping out would've probably broken his legs.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)09:22:33

>>16072
The jumping was more of a joke than a theory. There wouldn't happen to be any witches around on the island, would there?

I have a question by the way, concerning the set up of Krauss/Natsuhi's room. If I were to open the door once the chainlock is in place, what would be the first thing I see?

>>16073
Well, I suppose there's nothing that explicitly denies the possibility of something like that existing due to the nature of the game itself... but, there are two things that should probably be kept in mind:

1) Battler, at the end of the fourth problem guarantees: "Before I proceed, let me tell you that all the actions taken to create these four... "problems", I guess you could call them, are physically possible to do."
2) And, well... got any proof one exists?

And, for your second inquiry - the image would've been the same as the one described in the narration, really. (Aside from fact that the door wouldn't have been fully open, of course). Er - that is, if you were looking into the room from the hallway. If you were looking into the hallway from the room... well, you'd see a hallway.

Naturally, I'm speaking assuming that the door isn't locked.

>>16074
Actually....Maria mentions she has seen the witch of the forest, Battler mentions he could swear he saw shadows lurking around the forest but played it up to his imagination. However what they both saw was the fairy godmother from his dreams! He made a wish, and he had to fulfill it in order for his wish to come true. After all the witch has no power until quite a few people die. I believe this witch is responsible for helping Battler realize his wish of bringing his mother back to life.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)10:08:07

>>16075
Even if... something as silly as that was true...

Can you explain all of the four problems? Remember, witch or not - they still had to be pulled off physically...

>>16076
I believe it's only a matter of time before I solve the rest of these "problems".

The witch was the one who had given Maria the note, and had been let in while Rosa was sleeping. The sound of the door opening and closing that was heard by Gohda was this very witch! After she was let into the room she tossed Rosa out of the window, and as a treat gave Maria some coffee spiked with sugar laced with sedatives. Which by the way were retrieved by Battler, Nanjo's key was the one that was placed back into the key rack.

>>16077
Hold on now.
By your theory, the witch would've been the one to kill Rosa. But she wasn't - Battler really did kill Rosa as stated by the narration.

In addition, what happened to the key? It was found on Rosa's body afterwards. And yet, the witch must've left the room and locked it since when it was unlocked, it was searched and nobody was found hiding. (At this time, the witch still didn't have enough death to use magic, remember.)

>>16078
I'm a bit paranoid see? I like to make sure of some things before fully going off the rails.

Battler and the witch were let into Rosa's room, together they tossed Rosa out of the window and sedated Maria with coffee. Afterward Battler had closed the window and locked the room, the witch left the guesthouse and headed outside into the forest to wait. At this time is when Battler returned to his own room and relaxed a little, perhaps becoming paranoid. Shannon had visited and began talking with him.

The witch became tired of waiting and yelled out a scream and headed toward the mansion. Battler slipped the key onto Rosa's body when he "checked" to see if she was alive.

>>16079
Yet again, you have to remember:

Battler heard the door to Rosa's room being locked when Shannon had come to visit him. That means that somebody must've been conscious in the room itself and had used the key to the room to lock the door from the inside.

In addition, if this had happened before Shannon came into the room, it would've been a little before 10. So what would've been the point of leaving the note for 11?

>>16080
Rosa had left the her room at around 9:50 and had visited Battler. At this point in time is when Battler pushed Rosa out of his window and she fell and died, after which Shannon showed up as well. Do note during this time Maria actually had the key because Rosa had given it to her just in case she didn't come back, after all she was going to confront Battler. Not knowing Rosa had met up with Battler the witch had done as she was told to do and knocked on Maria's door, to which she was let inside and was given the key. Seeing that Rosa wasn't there, she sedated Maria and left after locking the door. She then went downstairs, exited and closed the door. This is what Gohda heard, at that time she saw Rosa's corpse and placed the key inside her pocket and screamed. Making a dash to the mansion after doing so.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)11:12:07

>>16081
The issue with that, however, is that the four people - Kanon, Genji, Gohda and Nanjo (out of which at least 3 are completely truthful) never saw Rosa's body when they approached the guesthouse at around 10:55.

In addition, Rosa's body would've been found directly under Battler's window instead of Rosa's, no? So why did the body end up beneath Rosa's window?

You could claim something along the lines of "the body was moved by the witch and then put back at some point" however, the issue is with the drag marks (be they blood or otherwise) - surely, some would've been left. You're free to claim that the rain washed them away, but in that case, after being dead for an hour, blood would've stopped coming from Rosa's head injury, surely. Thus, it's no longer possible (or, at least, very unlikely) for there to be a pool of blood around Rosa's head when she's put back. (I'm not a medical expert though... I'm just assuming it would be like that.)

>>16082
Ah-hah.

Battler poisoned the sugar long before anything, Rosa ended up dying while she was asleep in her locked room due to this. Gohda's dessert disaster is related to him not being able to find the sugar that Battler stole and poisoned. After Rosa had died the witch entered the room on time, sedated Maria, threw the body out of the window, exited the building and then screamed and ran off.

>>16083
Damn it.

I cannot argue that.

>>16084

>>16085
Yeah, you solved the first problem.

The events are SLIGHTLY different in my solution, but your timeline works just as well - the important things are more or less the same. I see no point in nitpicking it until you get EXACTLY my conclusion. The only possible issue I could raise with your order of events is one you can answer quite easily - so your solution would still stand no matter what I did (unless I flat-out denied it, which I don't want to do).

>>16086
Gotta reach out to the truth.

Before Rosa was thrown out the window and after Natsuhi had died, the witch knocked on the door and was allowed access to the parlor room. To everyone's surprise of course. After sitting and talking with them for a bit they all died due to the poison. Taking turns stabbing the bodies and finally leaving the knife in Rudolf's chest. She locked the parlor room's door and left through the window.

>>16088
Lesse...

Firstly, there's an issue with the culprit leaving through the window.

Battler says this:

"I looked through that third window. You couldn't make out much, but allow me to assure you that there was nothing resembling footprints below or in front of the window. The same could be said for the other two. In addition, there was dust on all three windowsills."

In addition, how was the window closed? It couldn't be closed from the outside, after all (proven yet again in the narration).

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)12:21:36

>>16089
That's fine, I have an alternative.

By the time Kyrie asked Gohda for the key, the witch was already inside. After they had all died and were stabbed the witch opened the window, unlocked the room, left the room, locked the room, went outside and tossed the key in through the open window and left it open.

>>16090
I am "waiting for it". I'm also becoming increasily sure that most of these theories are just you cutting off my means of escape.

Don't worry, I won't run. Your chances of winning will always remain the same.

I don't need to point out that the question of how the window was closed is still there. What I will point out is, yet again, the dust on the windowsill. Surely some drops of rain would've gotten there if it was kept open?

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)12:28:44

>>16091
Depends on which way the wind was blowing the rain, however to humor that some raindrops would've at some point landed on the sill, I'll say the object which Battler wiped his blood off of and onto was used to keep rain from getting in.

Now, I'm probably wrong on that account so I'll go off onto another topic that I'm surprised you haven't picked at yet.

When Gohda and Kanon entered the parlor room to give the cake to them, the witch was hiding somewhere in the room as to not alert them of her existence. Naturally the adults knew and that's why they asked for the key and to keep an eye on the entrance area, as to keep the existence of this witch of the forest a secret.

Also, the window was closed by Genji who is tasked to serve the heir of the estate in whatever they need him to do.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)12:40:34

>>16092
It's admittedly quite a stretch to assume that the object Battler used to wipe off the blood could've been used to somehow stop the raindrops from falling (especially since the nature of the actual object was never revealed. So I have to kind of question it, yeah.

It's actually pretty improbable any object was used, really... Like, no matter what you put on that window, it would've had to disturb the dust at least a LITTLE...

Also... yeah, I actually forgot about that second thing -- there would've been no place in the parlor for the witch to hide in without Kanon or Gohda noticing. Naturally, you could claim that only one of them saw her and then lied about it/covered it up, however, that would create an issue with your theory of using Genji to close the window later...

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)12:47:33

>>16093
That's what I figured...the witch was never inside the parlor room to begin with. The events that took place was Gohda gave the adults a poisoned cake which everyone ate, then they asked for the key and locked the door telling them to watch the entrance.

They then died and were left there. When Genji and Nanjo showed up, they were greeted with four dead untouched bodies. Nanjo became weak with the thought that perhaps they were poisoned and when he was told to run back to the guesthouse he didn't complain one bit, as to check to see if any of his poisons/medicines were taken. Genji took the moment to stab the adults and the rest is history.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)12:56:38

>>16095
Correct, yet again.

The second problem is yours.

No point in going over the third problem - surely beyond obvious at this point.

So, fourth?

>>16097
The truth is still shrouded for the third problem. We cannot pass it over until we've solved every riddle, that's the point of this game isn't it?

Kanon fired a shot at the witch, who used Nanjo's body as a meat shield.

>>16099
However, the body was already at the figure's feet when Kanon shot at her.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)13:08:34

>>16100
Either the culprit reloaded the gun or Kanon accidentally shot the corpse with the poor accuracy of the antique pistol, which given Kanon's inexperience with the gun would lead me to believe he'd be a poor shot anyway.

>>16101
The witch just reloaded the gun before coming to the garden, yeah (as was suggested by the narration, in fact).

The challenge of this problem lied simply in the fact that you didn't know about her existance. But since you do....

>>16102
Sadly I cannot continue onto problem 4, as I am in need of a break. I will return later to finish this case and to finish you off, to give you the rest you so desire.

>>16104
That's fine. I'm just about to go myself, anywa-HOLY SHIT I JUST REALIZED WE'VE BEEN AT IT FOR SIX HOURS.

...

...Well.

Damn.

I, uh... I guess we'll continue this later, then.

>>16106
My max time spent was something like 16 hours.

For the time I spent solving mysteries, this amount of time for a break was all I needed to recuperate.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)13:42:00

>>16109
This... is a "break"?! It's been like... it hasn't even been 20 minutes...

Alright... then...

Fourth problem... then...

>>16110
We can take a longer break if you'd like. By the way, what floor was Krauss' room on again?

>>16111
Nah, that's fine. Actually, proceeding now would probably be for the best. I was just surprised, that's all.

The floor of Krauss' room was never noted in the narration. It's irrelevant, really - aside from the things I stated regarding the height of the window from the ground, which still stand, so... at least somewhere above the ground floor and first floor, I suppose?

Again, it really doesn't matter. If it did, the narration would've mentioned it.

>>16112
!
You're from England.

Natsuhi had most likely gone to the bathroom before Battler came into the room. While she was in there Battler attempted to murder Krauss, and she saw it all happen. After which Battler left and locked the door.

Tending to her husband who was still barely conscious she decided to lock the door with the chain lock to stop Battler from unlocking the door and coming back in. She armed herself with the candlestick and waited.

>>16114
Nope.

But how did Natsuhi ultimately die?

And how did the key end up in Krauss' pocket?

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)14:13:14

>>16115
Australia.

Natsuhi finally died by way of poison, her hitting her neck was just her falling backward. Krauss died by the poison as well, it's just Battler attempted to strangle him because as he said, it was spur of the moment.

>>16120
Wrong again.

Possible.

All that remains is the question of the key...

>>16122
How weird, it'd be odd for an American to refer to the first floor as the ground floor and the second floor as the first floor. Scotland?

Genji unlocked the door and told Natsuhi and Krauss to stay in the room, and to have the key to make sure no one can enter. By this point Krauss was alive and took the key from him, putting it into his pocket. The chained door can be opened enough to slide a key in at the very least.

>>16123
Nah. That was just me being precise to avoid any confusion as to what I was referring to. Still, if you want to go about guessing my nationality, there's a lot easier (and more conclusive) way to do it, I assure you.

You'd think Natsuhi and Krauss would've gotten suspicious that Genji had managed to get his hands on a key which the murderer had used to lock the door just moments ago...

Genji might've claimed he knocked Battler out and took the key from him or something, but in that case, there would've been no reason to keep the two in their rooms...

>>16124
You're right, but it is a bit of a cheat isn't it? Coatia.

Natsuhi and or Krauss had used the phone and tried to call for help. Genji was the one who responded.

>>16125
Better than passing through entire Europe, I imagine. (Also, it's CROatia.)

Well, to be fair, I never mentioned a phone, so...

...I mean, even if a phone was involved, I fail to see how it changes things. They had no reason to accept the key from Genji and not unset the chain or keep the door unlocked. There's no way Genji could've explained it without "I found it on the ground" but even then - the correct course of action would've been to get Krauss among the other adults or alert the other adults or call for the doctor or something...

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)15:00:00

>>16126
Damn funky laptop keeps making me miss letters for things.

The witch had taken the key and unlocked the door, waiting for them to unchain it she busted into the room and spooked them. In doing so the poison finally circulated into their hearts and they both died. After that the witch took the key, locked the door and chained it, put the key into his pocket and disappeared.

Jokes aside Battler or the witch probably used his umbrella after Natsuhi and Krauss died to fish the key into his pocket..

>>16127
Naturally, the witch didn't have a bodycount high enough to disappear, so... (Hey, even if it's a joke, but I still have to deny it somehow...)

How exactly do you use an umbrella to fish a key into a pocket, though? And from where were they standing, exactly? If they fished the key from outside of the room, they would've had to do so through the door. And if they did so through the door, then it couldn't have been locked. And if the door wasn't locked when the key was put in, then how did it end up being locked at the end?

Naturally, if something like a fish string was used, there has to be some evidence left: like a hole in Krauss' pocket, a scratch on some surface or... something of the sort. There was none here, though...

>>16128
Reading takes the most time to do, I really wish I had a whiteboard. Battler had put a different key inside of Krauss' pocket, thus allowing him to lock the door on the way out and keep the key.

>>16129
Congratulations! I acknowledge your victory.

As the rules of the game were such where the whydunnit was not necessary to be explained (you got it, anyway) - the game is yours.

This is the full solution to the game (I wrote it rather hastily, so I apologize if some aspects of it are unclear).

Firstly, allow me to state that Ushiromiya Battler had two accomplices in this crime. Both of these accomplices will be revealed through this solution.

So, let us begin:

All Four Problems:
Earlier in the day, Battler had poisoned the sugar. The poison was the cause of death for all the victims.


The First Problem:
The entire plan for the first murder was more or less the work of the accomplice. They wanted to give Battler an alibi, thus making him less suspicious for the rest of the murders. The accomplice gave Maria a coded message (which was a simple Caesar's cipher, btw - the spaces were put in there to just confuse you) telling her that she'll come to her room at around 11. Naturally, the accomplice knew that Rosa would be staying over at that room, as well. Since Rosa had been poisoned with the rest, the accomplice knew that Rosa would probably be dead sometime at around 11 at the latest (in case she wasn't - the note had a way of dealing with that - after the accomplice knocked on the door, they would hide and watch from nanjo's room, you see: if Rosa was alive, then Maria would ask to go to the bathroom. If Rosa was "asleep", Maria would simply open the door. The accomplice would then drug Maria giving her the coffee cup (claiming it was "a magic potion") or something, as the accomplice is the person that Maria had percieved as "Beatrice" on this gameboard. The accomplice would then go to Battler, tell him to go somewhere where there's people (even wake someone up if he needs to, just make sure someone's around). The accomplice would then take the key to the room, throw Rosa's body out the window, close it, lock the door from the inside, exit the guesthouse, plant the key on her and then scream. Thus, Battler would have a perfect alibi.

However, things happened a bit differently.

The accomplice, upon entering the guesthouse (this is the front door Gohda had heard was opening), realized people were in the lounge. "Good", the accomplice thought. They would just get Battler to go downstairs and join the others. As the accomplice came to Battler's room, they however realized that he had someone in the room with him. That was fine, then - Battler would have an alibi no matter what. She then proceeded with her plan as she would've normally, but changed her mind about one last detail: they wouldn't go outside and plant the key. Instead, after dropping Rosa out the window, they screamed through the open window, locked Rosa's door from the outside and hid (watching from Nanjo's unlocked room). The idea was that now, since they wouldn't find the key to the room on Rosa, that the culprit must have had it - thus, if Battler doesn't have it, he must be innocent. Another reason they went this route was because they panicked upon the number of people downstairs (and the idea of the door to Battler's room suddenly opening as they were making their way downstairs. If this explanation, however, isn't good enough - I slightly changed it so that Shannon was standing in the open doorway to Battler's room, thus forcing her to act quickly so that Battler would have an alibi). So -- they hid. However, upon seeing that only Battler came out of the room, they changed their mind yet again. If the key WAS found on Rosa's body, then that would mean that she walked outside of her own free will, thus making it impossible that Battler was the culprit. So, they gave Battler the key in the hallway and quickly explained the situation. Battler understood and made his way downstairs, making sure to be the first to reach the body so that he could plant the key on Rosa's corpse. He had two chances to do this: when he first reached the body OR when the key "appeared" to fall out of Rosa's pocket. Either are possible explanations. Meanwhile, the accomplice had hid in Nanjo's room until the investigation was over. Then, during the period in which the people in the lounge were waiting for Nanjo and co. to come back and report, they snuck out of the guesthouse (nobody had mentioned hearing the front door open as Battler was the one who took the seat next to the lounge's door, if you will remember) and made their way to the mansion, where they came across a dead Nanjo...

HOWEVER, the solution suggested here also works: The accomplice came into the guesthouse long before the servants, hid in Nanjo's room and waited until 11. The rest happens pretty much exactly as before, however the front door Gohda had heard opening was the accomplice leaving, in this scenario. It's also quite possible for the accomplice to have placed the key on the body themselves, as well.


The Second Problem:
This problem is easy, but - it takes a lot of explaining from a motive standpoint. This is where the second accomplice - Genji - comes in. I should probably get his motive out of the way first.

Firstly, Natsuhi's diary pretty much proves Kinzo had chosen someone else as their heir. This was, as Kinzo's last note suggests, however - a test of honor for Krauss. The nature of the test was this: Krauss would meet with the heir and inform them of their new position. If Krauss had done so earnestly, then the second part of the will - revealing that it was all a test - would be revealed, Krauss would become the heir, instead. Kinzo had tasked Genji with seeing to that this test was done earnestly - he would either look over the meeting or questioned Battler after the meeting. After all, Kinzo was certain that Krauss wouldn't dare just not do anything, as at least one other person on the island was probably aware of the deal. So, it was Krauss who called Battler to meet him in his [Krauss'] room. This explains why the first person Battler had supposedly killed was Krauss. Genji couldn't enter the room without seeming suspicious and making the whole thing obvious to a certain extent, waited outside the room, in the hallway. Krauss had planned to kill Battler in that meeting, but to his surprise - it was Battler who managed to sneak up on him. So, when Battler walked out into the hallway - the fact that his left hand bloody from touching his wound and the fact that he was locking Krauss' room from the outside had Genji instantly realize what had happened. Naturally, he chose not to do anything. Sicne Krauss (in his mind) was now dead - Battler became the family head by default and he had to serve him to the death. This gives an interesting new meaning to this part of the narration:

"I closed the door from the outside using Krauss' key* and moved down the hallway, not even bothering to check if there was someone around at the time who could've accused me of killing Krauss once they'd found his body. Admittedly, I got quite lucky in that regard."

Which explains his actions in the second problem. All the four people had died from the sugar in the coffee (the cake only sped up the process). There was no locked room to begin with, really. Genji and Nanjo found the scene - they just weren't stabbed at the time. After sending Nanjo away, Genji took the knife and set up the scene to throw suspicion off of Battler and onto himself or at least confuse the issue significantly (that was assuming Nanjo returned - a part of him was hoping Nanjo would die on the way; an alternative explanation would've been that he was intending to bring in Nanjo on the whole ordeal).


The Third Problem:
The accomplice found Nanjo's body on their way to the mansion (he had died from the poison, as well), took their body, shot it with a pistol, reloaded it and dragged it into the center of the garden. The idea was to get somebody to notice them, shoot the pistol and then run away. This would essentially make it impossible for Battler to be the culprit (after all, now that Nanjo was dead, nobody was going to be able to figure out he had actually died from poison). Though, this is where Kanon had gotten involved and shot the accomplice. They promptly ran away after that. Simple enough.


The Fourth Problem:
This one, I will admit, is the most convoluted of the bunch.

Natsuhi, as suggested in her diary, was going to try and stop Krauss from going through with his plan (that is, killing Battler). She hid in the room (the narration states that Battler never bothered to search the room thoroughly) and watched the meeting. Naturally, the shock of seeing (in her eyes) strong and powerful husband being killed left her unable to do anything while Battler was still in the room. So, she stayed silent. Battler had, in the meantime, planted the servants' room key given to him by Shannon (this was done to either frame one of the servants at some point down the line after Battler's complete innocence was establish or to force one of the servants to lie to save their skin, thus confusing the issue even more). Battler locked the door from the outside and left. Natsuhi came out of her hiding place and set the chain - she was afraid that Battler could come back, after all.

It was at that point that she had realized that Krauss was still alive.

Now, it was my original intention to have her pick up the candlestick out of fear of Krauss being a zombie (it's silly, but it's shock of the whole thing), but it can also be argued that she picked it out of fear of Battler somehow getting through the door and coming back for her.

They both ended up dying shortly from poison (they simply took more sugar in their coffee than the rest) and died.

And, naturally - when the key was found, Shannon ended up lying out of fear for her life (after all, her one crime WAS trying to stay alive, as Battler says). At that time, she strongly started to suspect that Battler was the culprit. However, she was stuck - if she admitted that it was the key to the servants' room, she knew that bad things would happen (either George would freak out and attack the rest of the servants OR Battler would kill her and the rest on the spot - after all, he still had the pistol on him. So, she said nothing).


The Accomplice's Identity:
Now, this seems a bit strange, wouldn't you say? The fact that there are 17 humans on the island, and yet it seems impossible for any of them to be this "accomplice". Well, there were 12 clues that pointed to the accomplice's identity here (not necessarily all evidence - some were quite minor and pretty much things that only fit in in retrospect).
1. The constant use of the term "demon" or "monster" throughout the narration. It's not a "hint" in the strongest sense of the word, but it is something that at least makes you think - especially when later an actual "demonic" character makes their appearance.
2. Natsuhi's mention of a "demon" that the servants talked about.
3. The fact that Kinzo's books were focused on the occult, reviving, demons and such that were related to Rokkenjima and were over a hundered years old - this implies that there was some kind of myth or legend that was related to Rokkenjima long before Kinzo or Beatrice came to the island.
4. The fact that Maria talks about a "Beatrice", yet the illusion of the witch isn't brought up once. This is especially strange, since Shannon and Kanon are not the same person in this story, either... So who is this "Beatrice" she believes in?
5. This one is, admittedly, small, but: "You could almost swear you saw the faces of creatures calmly walking through the dense forest, following you. Watching you." She (the demon) was following them the entire time after killing Nanjo. This is how she set up the whole situation with Kanon.
6. Battler's dream. Consider WHY exactly he'd found it so... scarring, for lack of a better word. The first part of the dream (before he meets the woman) is centered in a world that doesn't exist - a world in which he never left the family. But it's stated several time in the narration that he HAD left the family for six years (or, at least, very strongly implied). So thus, the only part of the dream that could've had an affect on his was the woman. But why? It was only a dream. Even if Battler was insane and intended to revive someone, the dream shouldn't have had an affect on him - after all, it was merely what he intended to do (if you had believed that to be his motivation). So, the only possible solution is that it was the sight of the woman that had frightened him. But why? Simple. He'd met her before. And the term "haunts my dreams" came here. Literally.
7. Kinzo, in his very first note, pretty much SAYS that some kind of supernatural entity exists and describes how exactly she functions. It explains why Battler needed to commit all the murders, as well. (It also explains Black Battler's monologue at the end - about Battler taking more lives than was necessary).
8. The "suicides". They appeared to have no part in the crime, at all. However, what had actually happened was that the demon had seen a chance to make her powers complete - she killed the two (it does not violate the red regarding the culprit as she is not human) and upon reaching the bodycount of 10, gotten her magical powers and thus escaped the room without needing the key. Naturally, the player was never inteded to solve this since the rules state that only the culprit's murders need to be explained.
9. Remember that the person Kanon shot did not bleed. Naturally, Battler's explanation for it was somewhat valid, as well, but still - it makes you wonder... especially since there wasn't so much as a blood trail or just a couple of drops... (This said, I did an extra line to make this clearer) In actuality, the third problem itself is a hint that an extra person simply MUST exist. But due to the rule about the extra human... well, the only reasonable deduction from that is that the culprit wasn't human.
10. Battler himself, at the very end, says "I was possessed by a demon". This is not to imply he was literally possessed, but that the demon had somehow influenced him into killing his family (again, not necessarily a real hint, but...)
11. It is stated at the very beginning that this game is meant to mock the player and Umineko. In addition, it's also stated there's no witch's side. You might anticipate that's due to the fact that it's written in the form of a confession, but the real reason is that there really is a kind of witch at work here!
12. Also, yet another strange hint, but come on - the dead dog? There's always an animal stangely dying when there's some kind of demon involved...

The accomplice was a demon (or a witch, if you will).

The Motive:
Ah, yes. What is the culprit's heart in all of this, I wonder? Why did Battler kill all these people?

Well, it should be fairly obvious by now -- but he did it to bring back the only person that had ever truly loved him in this universe: His mother, Asamu.

He made a deal with the witch to restore her magical power. That required sacrifices. Ten, to be more exact.

Ah, but... why go overboard? He certainly killed more than 10 when it's all said and done... This was the question made in the epilogue and I do not intend to answer it. It is up to the reader to determine what kind of man was this Ushiromiya Battler. Was he a heartless monster that enjoyed killing? Or did he think he was doing them a favor? Or did he think it was for the best in order to secure his newely-reborn mother's happiness?

That, I cannot tell you. It is up to you to decide.

Last edited at 14/08/30(Sat)16:19:52

>>16130
The truth has been reached. Was quite fun solving. Pretty fair in my opinion too.

Well, I found it unique. Good game, I look forward to any future ones you may make.