Very well, we just need to clarify something small before the game begins.
Your closed room paragraph describes two murders, George and Shannon. And even if I'm up for original tricks and ideas, this tournament is about a single closed room. So the question is. Which closed room do I need to solve in order to win?

>>11967
You have to solve both murders. They both died in a similar fashion. I think you know what I mean by this, especially since the this doesn't go against the rules you have just mentioned.

>>11968
I see, then I will just have to ask you to confirm something else. Are both murders related? I mean, to fully understand how George died I would need to also solve Shannon's murder? Or are they independent?
This might look as if I were to try to scratch a lot your game before it would even start, but if the murders were to be unrelated I believe it would be a little unfair.

>>11969
Naturally, the murders are related.

Are you ready to start now?

>>11970
I'll take your word for it then. This is the first time we actually confront each other, isn't it? Anyway, let's do this.

The culprit used a delayed method a murder, needing no physical interaction with the victim once it was inside of the closed room.

>>11971
The culprit killed the victims at point blank range.

There is no closed room, the room was already broken into once the detective got there.

Because of this anything could have happened before that.

The room had been checked by the staff member before the narrator appeared. However, how does that solve anything?

Regardless of Rosa and Hideyoshi's testimony, Genji's master key was used to lock the room where George's corpse was found.

>>11973
Genji's key was not used to lock George's room.

That doesn't matter.
My theory still stands, because the detective was not there if the staff member left to go call someone then the room could have been accessed by anyone.

Once the staff member left the room, he closed and locked the door. Nobody else got in or out of the room until the police arrived.

What about Shannon's room, then?
Battler's investigation isn't completely honest. Either a key was planted into one of the rooms or one of the windows wasn't locked before they broke into the rooms.

>>11975
When the group investigated the keys were in the room and the windows were without a doubt locked.

A part of the room is broken in such a way to allow entrance without the use of the window or door. Said area could have been fixed afterwards

Rika used this but you only denied the window.

No part of the room was fixed to hide an exit.

The investigation happened minutes after they got inside of the room, giving enough time to anyone to plant a key or lock a window.

>>11977
No key was planted into the room, nor was the window locked like that.

You may have denied the roof, but I wouldn't put it past you to try this!
The chain is longer that normal and does not work properly. This would allow someone to bypass it via setting it from the outside or simply slipping through the gap.

The chain lock isn't longer than the usual. No human can pass through it while it's set. And even if you could set it from the outside it doesn't solve everything.

It is possible to lock a door from the outside without the need of one of the keys mentioned in the story.

>>11979
You have to use one of the keys to lock the doors from the outside.

Sure it does.
It was set from the outside after killing the guy.
If that works then the mystery is solved.

What about the door? It was locked too. The chain lock wasn't set from the outside after killing the victim.

More keys able to open/lock the doors exist than the ones mentioned in the story.

>>11981
The only keys that can lock the doors are mentioned in the story.


Obviously it wasn't really.
None of the locks were really set upon discovery.

The window and the door were locked upon discovery.

It is possible to set a chain lock from the outside of the room where it is placed.

>>11983
It is impossible to set the chain from the outside of the room.

The room may have a roof, but that doesn't mean it is missing walls or a floor!

Just think about it! A bathroom where everyone can see you!

Voyeurism is not allowed in this game.
The room had walls and a floor.


It is possible to unlock a window from the outside of the room where it is placed.

>>11985
It is impossible to lock a window from the outside.

-They were never found during the investigation, but the culprit was still hiding in the room at some point.

The culprit wasn't found inside of the room because he wasn't there.

It is possible to lock a window with a mechanism inside of the room while the person who activates it is outside.

>>11987
The last time any window was locked it was by a human hand.

The last person to lock the room was the culprit while inside the room.

The culprit wasn't found inside of the room. Explain that blue, this isn't navy.

It is possible to set a chain lock using a mechanism inside of the room while the person who activates it is outside.

>>11989
That is true, however the deadbolt cannot be done like that.

The culprit is no longer alive. He left the room after his body could fit through something no normal human can.

The culprit is very alive. Where very alive means "not very dead".

At some time, a different entrance or an exit existed in the rooms. It was either fixed, destroyed or it just didn't exist when the rooms were examined.

>>11991
No entrances or exits have ever existed besides doors and windows.

When the room was locked for the last time before the discovery the victim was wounded and or killed

Another navy? I'll good with you. The last time the victim locked the door he wasn't wounded nor dying.

A door or a window stopped working as one. Either the culprit escaped through it or the victim's corpse was inserted through it.

>>11994
The door to both rooms and windows to both rooms never did such a thing.

I said the last time it was locked. Not necessarily when the victim did.

repeat etc.

Make a theory with it and we're good to go. No requests for this game.

Another door or a window existed at some time in one of the rooms. The culprit used it to escape or attack the victims from the outside

>>11996
The culprit never escaped through an opening like that.

cut because silly

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)14:30

>>11997
culprit isn't human

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)14:28

[notred]An orangutan-[/notred] The culprit is a human.

The victims locked the windows before dying

>>11999
None of the victims locked the window.

The staff member is lying or had an unreliable perspective.

The staff member is innocent, and his perspective is reliable. Not lying either.

The culprit killed the victims from the outside of the room, but he was technically near of them, like seeing them from the outside of the window.

>>12001
The culprit was inside the room when he killed.

Staff member is lying.

...The staff member isn't lying.

So far you have used singular where we have two murders in hand. One of the reds you have used to far to refer to the murders only applies to one of them. The second murder could have been solved already!

>>12003
Just being lazy.
They apply to both instances.

The culprit is actually Ozaki and the victim is anon. Because anon never responded to the Ozaki's theories all the way during a surgery anon needed he put the knife into the body. When anon was staying at a hotel he received a call from Ozaki. Ozaki told him a joke and because it was so funny anon fell to the ground laughing. At this moment the knife inside of him stabbed from the inside out, thus making it look like a murder scene.!!!

Good, I'm giving you this: By the time the victim died, the culprit was already out of the room.

Forced suicide is considered murder. Shannon made George kill himself after a phone call. He either blackmailed him or simply broke his heart!

>>12006
She*, considering the situation you can keep it a he if you wish, though.

>>12006
Forced suicide was not used.

The culprit was not at point blank range when they stabbed the victim.

Care to word that as a theory? We're seeing the same problem again.

One of the murders was accidental, giving the illusion of a closed room.

>>12009
No accident was used.

The victim was forced to fall onto the knife or be pushed into it. Indirect means or physical means such as pushing or pulling.

The victim wasn't forced to fall into the knife, nor he was pushed to it.

The doors weren't really locked prior investigation!

>>12011
The doors were indeed locked.

The culprit killed the victim at point blank range.

Heh, maybe I'm actually being more unfair than everyone else, I think you have replied decently to my requests. The culprit wasn't at point blank range when the knife was stabbed into the victim.

The master keys Battler had are less than 3. Someone else had a master key.

>>12013
Other people did indeed have master keys.

The victim was not wounded when he locked his own door, however he was about to be killed. He locked the door and very shortly after doing so he was killed.

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)15:10

The victim wasn't about to be killed when he locked his door for the last time.

At some time in the game, Battler had different master keys. He locked the rooms using one of the keys he didn't have before, and then swapped one of them with Genji's key.

>>12015
Battler never swapped master keys. He only ever had those 3 ones.

The victim was the last person to lock his room. The knife was not inside the room at that time.

I won't say anything about it. Too vague again. However, the last time the victim locked the door, a knife was inside of the room.

He only had three, but he had one less when the victims were killed!

>>12017
Battler always had those three keys in his possession during the course of the game.

The culprit forced the victim to suicide. Talking through the wall, blackmail, etc.

The victim didn't kill himself. No forced suicide either.

The game started before the murders were committed!

>>12019
The game started after the murders were committed
Don't see how that helps at all.

The culprit and victim are different people.

The culprit and the victim are different people!

And enough with that! Your red is useless then! Battler got one of the keys before the game started. That key was used to lock the doors!

>>12021
Oh I made a red about that, right.
Battler never had more than 3 keys even before the game and after it.
My bad.

Magnets were used to made the knife lung into the victim from outside of the room.

>>12022
Looks like I made a logic error with that last post. You win anon.

>13/06/09(Sun)15:30
>15:30
Goddamnit, will you guys ever let me give up?

Anyway here is the answer. Its pretty silly but barely scrapes past the red. Shame I logic error'd on something unrelated to the answer.

edit: apparently it turns out it wasn't a logic error but I believed it was and went over the time limit.


>It is impossible to pass a key into an area when the locks are set.

This implies two or more locks, Mion posted "All the prior red concerning the locking of the rooms does not apply to the chains and/or windows." In which I responded "Those reds apply to the chain and window locks."

There is actually a 3rd lock/door. It's on a dog door on one of the other doors.

Anon also tried "Another door or a window existed at some time in one of the rooms. The culprit used it to escape or attack the victims from the outside"

Which I responded. "The culprit never escaped through an opening like that." That is because it was the key which passed through.

The key in question was one of the keys Battler found, Jessica lied to him saying it was a master key. It was the dogdoor key.


Anyway that is how it bypasses the red in point form. I think it will suffice for an answer.

Rather clever, I see. You perfectly deceived me with just that. Mine is a little more silly, but in theory not very hard either.

The victim died because of Cardiac dysrhythmia, in other words, he was electrocuted. The culprit set a trap on the doorknob of the victim’s door and waited until he was inside to turn it on. The trap consisted in an electrical connection from the underground power room to the doorknob. The doorknob by itself it isn’t a trap, but it’s metallic and it’s a good electrical conductor.

On the other side, the silly victim was going to pull a prank on his friends. To do so, he poured some blood a doctor extracted from him some weeks ago over him and held in a huge knife on his left hand (how clever of him!). However, when he tried to leave, he was electrocuted and accidentally stabbed himself. The “weird thing” in the blood was the volume (too much) and the color (fresh and not fresh blood mixed).

His friends disappeared because they hated him, and the argument the witnesses mention is actually the victim having a phone call. His thick/terrible accent made them confuse it by a language they didn’t know (The murders in the Rue Morgue, anyone?)