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Audio Kousaki Satori (MONACA) - Kaii no Ou - (2.95MB - 228 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 10 Kaii no Ou.mp3 ) Length: 1:35
11939 No. 11939 edit
Hello everyone ! Welcome to my first gameboard. As it is my first, I'd like to warn you that it might be painful to read.
Also, anyone can participate.
Anyway, enjoy yourselves !


Theseus's Paradox

Hello everyone ! Welcome to the Meta-World. I am your beloved host, Squitcher. You are called here to solve a series of impossible murder.
How ? Who ? And Why ? That is what you must find, go ahead and break the witch's illusion.
The rules are standard : Blue Truth denies the witch's illusion, Red Truth is an absolute truth.
I'll put in a little hint system for you however, I'll explain it after having told the story.

There, go ahead, immerse yourselves once again in the world of the Ushiromiya family, and welcome.. To Theseus's Paradox !

Last edited at 13/06/19(Wed)11:56:19
151 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 12181 edit
File 136337763540.png - (250.24KB , 383x480 , leo_4a.png )
12181
>>12179
>>12180
Correct. You might add that The culprit closed the door then after and that Eva was the one to lock the door. But this should be obvious already. For the extinguisher, I'll add that string was tied around the extinguisher up to the window and this is how the culprit got it back.

Anyway, the third paradox is now fully solved. See, this was easily solvable. What will you do now, I wonder ?

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)12:39:46
>> No. 12183 edit
File 137236397379.png - (178.04KB , 537x305 , goodbye eva.png )
12183
Normal stuff for Rudolf:

The culprit killed Rudolf and they fit through his set chain lock, and then locked the door behind themselves with either Jessica's or Natsuhi's normal key, Krauss's old key, or one of the master keys.

The culprit entered and exited through the window to kill Rudolf. A smaller accomplice (*ahem* Maria) fit through the set chain lock to go lock the window and come back. The culprit then locked the door with the keys listed above.

The culprit killed Rudolf while standing outside the set chain lock through the gap and stabbed him etc. In the 20 seconds he moved to the center of the room. Then the culprit locked the door with the keys listed above.

>>12122
Since the second paradox keeps bugging me, I'll just check that Natsuhi falls under the same scrutiny as Jessica, so perhaps Natsuhi left the parlor to check up on her husband more than once. Or at least repeating Natsuhi never left the parlor between 9:15 and leaving to discover his corpse.
>>12153
Although Genji never lied about what the keys were and their uses, Natsuhi was handed the master key instead. When she went to check up on Krauss, she used that key to open the door. The culprit used the other 01 key to kill Krauss and create the locked room.

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)15:28:37
>> No. 12185 edit
File 137170301338.png - (640.70KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 1.png )
12185
I'd like to add to the above that Rudolf entered with the culprit, he then set the chain, got killed, the culprit then reset the chain, came out, set the chain again by putting its hand through the gap, and locked the door.
Strangely, I'd also like to think that Rudolf was killed while the rest was in the kitchen. But if otherwise, then it seems that the culprit used it's own or the accomplice's regular key to lock the door.
Also, I wonder if the same method of escaping the room was used in Krauss's case.
>> No. 12186 edit
Audio Yuki Kajiura - Symposium magarum - (1.63MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 11-Symposium magarum - edit.mp3 ) Length: 1:47
12186
>>12183
Agh... A direct hit again.. Rudolf was killed through the opening formed by the chain lock.
... But this is not over yet. Natsuhi had all the keys except Jessica's key that could open room 1 when they searched for Rudolf. She did not at any point lose one, was stolen of one or handed one, Jessica neither. Jessica was always with the others and they never left track of her. Natsuhi did not enter room 1 from the point where she left it after hearing Shannon's scream up to the discovery of Rudolf's corpse !

Natsuhi only went to check up on Krauss once.

Everyone was handed the correct keys.


>>12185
The only regular keys that can open that door are Jessica's and Natsuhi's, and, well, just look above.
>> No. 12187 edit
Audio 07-Callisto~short.mp3 - (1.86MB )
12187
>>12186
i vaguely pointed at them actually but anyway
Well then... w-wait.
The one who had the master keys was actually Rosa, wasn't she? The narration states that "Rosa intervened", then "she turned towards the servants", and at last, "she ordered" to give her a keys.
>> No. 12189 edit
File 13724519284.png - (252.94KB , 384x480 , leo_8a.png )
12189
>>12187
........Fuck. FUCK. FUCKITY FUCK FUCK.
LOGIC ERROR
Aaaaaaah, fuck me, I did the simplest of errors by not checking my text again. Truly, sorry about that, that's a baby's error.

I wish you won't mind that I'll modify the previous red truth then.
>Natsuhi had all the keys except Jessica's key that could open room 1 when they searched for Rudolf. She did not at any point lose one, was stolen of one or handed one, Jessica neither. Jessica was always with the others and they never left track of her. Natsuhi did not enter room 1 from the point where she left it after hearing Shannon's scream up to the discovery of Rudolf's corpse !

This truth doesn't hold up anymore.

Rosa had the three master keys, but the master keys were not used to lock room 1.
Natsuhi and Jessica had the numbered key and both their regular keys but they never out of sight from the group. And they were never seen opening that door until Rudolf's corpse was discovered.

>> No. 12190 edit
Audio - (4.20MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , Infant Queen Bee.mp3 ) Length: 4:35
12190
Looogiiic eerroorsss aside, there's no magical Kanon to save Rudolf now:

Rudolf was killed before Shannon was heard screaming, and Jessica or Natsuhi used their key.

Jessica or Natsuhi, although not leaving sight from the group, went to the front of their room, noticed it wasn't locked (not noticing the corpse either or just simply didn't open the door) and just locked the door with one of the three keys.

Last edited at 13/06/28(Fri)13:56:43
>> No. 12191 edit
File 136335075057.png - (252.97KB , 384x480 , leo_4.png )
12191
>>12190
Should I remind you that Natsuhi and Jessica slept in that room ? They both woke up upon hearing Shannon's scream, and they didn't found any corpse upon waking up.

They were never seen locking the door either.
>> No. 12192 edit
File 13724542226.png - (134.36KB , 344x499 , ange BSOD.png )
12192
>>12191

Rudolf was killed before Natsuhi and Jessica entered the kitchen. They used one of their keys to lock the door before they met the group.

They locked the door covertly without anyone seeing when in the group.
>> No. 12193 edit
File 137245438752.png - (278.46KB , 503x480 , leo_v2a.png )
12193
>>12192
Rudolf was alive when they entered the kitchen.

Due to how the group was, there was nothing they could do covertly.
>> No. 12194 edit
File 13724552192.png - (85.55KB , 305x345 , ange bsod take 2.png )
12194
>>12193

Rudolf had a delayed death anyway. Rudolf was stabbed before they entered the kitchen. They locked the door behind them, and within the 20 seconds until his death, they already ran and entered kitchen.

A string trick or mechanism X was used to lock the door. In other words, a key was not used.

Edit: Let me just add this for paradox 2:

Repeat it. Natsuhi's key never left the parlor from the time she entered at 9:15 to the time she left to check the corpse. Additionally, the times in the narration and in your red are absolute. "The clock rings a 8:00 and everyone wakes up." Is it really 8:00 or did someone mess with it?

>She did not at any point lose one, was stolen of one or handed one.

And what is to hand something to someone anyway? In my eyes, that's more like directly trading off the item. So, in other words, Natsuhi indirectly gave the key to the culprit. For example, she purposely put the key somewhere inside the parlor or guesthouse. The culprit then grabbed the key in its respective location as they left to Krauss's room to kill him and create the locked room. They then returned the key somehow, directly or indirectly, to Natsuhi before she left the parlor.

This may work for paradox 4 as well: Jessica's, Natsuhi's, or Krauss's key was purposely left somewhere in the guest house. The culprit found the key's respective location to kill Rudolf and lock it, and gave it back to either Jessica or Natsuhi before they started searching for Rudolf.

Last edited at 13/06/29(Sat)01:19:23
>> No. 12201 edit
File 137250535850.png - (701.77KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~felmur.png )
12201
>>12189
too bad there's no "choking" for a written reds
What group? Natsuhi and the rest just played that scene in a kitchen to deceive Rosa.

Or maybe either Jessica or Natsuhi found the room unlocked and used her key to lock it while being completely sure there is no one in the room. well except if she locked the room earlier because in that case natsuhi would raise a noise
>> No. 12209 edit
Audio - (2.91MB - 128 kbps - 22.05 kHz , Mawaru Penguindrum Volume 8 - OST 13 - Fate of the.mp3 ) Length: 3:09
12209


No… I've been doing this wrong, haven't I? I'm sorry for wasting your time with so many useless blues, because shot gunning this mystery won't do it justice.
Although this theory is by most estimations wrong, let me just do this properly. This all rests on keys after all, and this can be killed in one swift red. But I can try again at a later time with something different, yet something all encompassing. I’m just hoping you don’t see this as one big blue--but rather different shards of the single truth.

What is Theseus’s Paradox? It raises the philosophical question that if an object that had all its components replaced, is it really the same object? By Beatrice’s final thesis, it seems she would concurrently disagree that it is (as with me). Therefore, I come to the conclusion that there are more keys than what meets the eye. Let me set this to the backdrop of an earlier theory:

Kanon, you are the culprit.

FIRST PARADOX

July 21st, someone devastatingly solved the riddle in time. Genji, who knew that the inheritance also meant a great deal to the Fukuin house if the riddle remained unsolved, had to be sly with Kanon and told him he had to “check up on something” at the store house. He was actually fetching where the true keys to the safe were stored. He did not lie about the uses of the numbered old keys he handed to the adults, only that they were not the correct keys in opening the safe. Rather, the keys that open only the safe look similar, but are simply not the same. The person who solved the riddle may have already entered inside the underground basement and tried to use their key and was furious explaining Genji’s nervousness and demand to keep everyone inside. I’ll get to the specifics later. He tried to enter the storehouse, but Kanon stopped him in time. Before this, Kanon had already taken all the objects out of the storehouse and unlocked the window. Kanon said he would give back the true keys to the safe if Genji complied with something really quick. Bang, Genji died. He is now unable to let the riddle fall to public ears. At some point Kanon also took the gold with the keys while leaving the safe open. Maria probably saw him enter.

SECOND PARADOX

Kanon had to serve something to the west corridor. An axe that is. He went by Krauss’s door, knocked, and then went in for the kill. He locked the door with Krauss’s room numbered key, and left the Krauss safe key in his pocket. The red where you say his key is unmistakable and none others like it exist, that's because they probably look somewhat different (other roman numeral font?) and the safe key has another use according to this theory.
I will admit this is the only red I kinda have to twist.

THIRD PARADOX

Solved. Kanon probably used the wielding torch to light Eva on fire while outside. They never really had to enter the kitchen during the murder which makes this the most illuminating. The key may or may not have been switched at one point.

FOURTH PARADOX

Door was locked in the same manner as Krauss’s. Method of murder was solved. When the group left Kanon had his chance to murder and switch the keys again. Kanon probably offered him the other key in exchange for his, but then stabbed him when switching off keys.

FIFTH PARADOX

I’ll just take a wild guess and say that Rosa solved it originally, explaining why she left (to check the underground basement again). Kanon slipped out during the arguments and killed Rosa swiftly, probably with the saw. He then switched the keys again, like stated before, Kanon took the regular old key while placing the safe key in her pocket. He locked the door behind her. Natsuhi tried to use Krauss’s old key on the door, but alas, the key she now had in her possession was simply one of the safe keys.

OTHER MYSTERIES

Kanon could have been helped by Shannon as an accomplice at some point, placing letters etc, either with the gold or killing Rosa when she and George left. (Or hell, you can probably switch their names around for this theory)
Thematically, the last letter just sounds like something Kanon would write “I used to think I could believe in others, support their dreams and that their happiness would bring me my own. But as I cannot understand them…” He cannot fathom the selfish desires the children want with the gold, and he rather see the money be put to better use in the Fukuin house. He also had knowledge of Genji’s briefcase’s key, and the sole owner to the key of where corpses are found after all.

And with that, I don’t see any mystery left.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)03:57:16
>> No. 12210 edit
File 13721789789.png - (279.49KB , 503x480 , leo_v12.png )
12210
>>12194
I knew you'd say that blue. Rudolf was not stabbed before they entered the kitchen.

A key was used to lock the door.

The clock's time is correct and was never tampered with at any moment.

Hmm. How insistent. Natsuhi's key never left her possession from 9h15 until the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

The technique you describe falls under the definition of handing over.

>>12201
The scene in the kitchen was genuine for at least 5 out of the 6 persons.

I think I already did enough concerning that locking part.
>> No. 12212 edit
Audio Takada Ryuuichi - Rikishi no Tenkan Ten - (3.03MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 21 - Rikishi no Tenkan Ten - edit.mp3 ) Length: 3:19
12212
>>12209
Good, good. You have a chosen a most good path there my dear. I can confirm to you that this is the correct way to go about it.
However, I'm sorry to say this but...

The only keys on the island are the three master keys, the 4 numbered keys, the 7 regular keys, the storehouse key and Genji's briefcase key. No other key ever existed at any point on the island.

That, and The keys that open the safe are the 4 numbered keys.

Finally, last blow. The wielding torch was not used to light Eva on fire.
>> No. 12213 edit
File 137259177629.png - (83.84KB , 274x327 , USODA.png )
12213
>>12211
Paradox 4. Repeat it. Natsuhi's and Jessica's keys never left their respective person.

Now the only thing normal I can think of for paradox 2 got ugly, y'know that? In order:

Culprit killed Krauss with door locked by old key from inside. Culprit stayed in room until:
Natsuhi left the parlor.
Culprit then unlocked door and left.


>When Natsuhi left to notify her husband, the door was locked.
Whatever that means. Is it when she tried to open the door or when she left the parlor?

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)04:34:18
>> No. 12214 edit
File 137259233371.png - (280.76KB , 503x480 , leo_v12a.png )
12214
>>12213
Natsuhi and Jessica's key never left their respective persons.

The culprit had left by the time Natsuhi got out of the parlor.

It applies to both, really.

Don't stop thinking Camphor. Don't stop.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)04:43:00
>> No. 12215 edit
File 137259313731.png - (391.15KB , 793x562 , I hate keys now.png )
12215
>>12214
Ok, ok. Still thinking for paradox 2.
...
The map is sectioned off unusually too, why are the walls separated?
Rooms can move around and detach from the guesthouse, so room 01 just refers to the room in its respective spot! Jessica's key really was used to lock that door when it wasn't in the location of room 01!
Yeah, I don't know either.
The floor was sawed off and wielded back on, offering the culprit a mode of escape.
Once again, a hole is a broad term.
The parlor can refer to something other than the parlor
Room 1 can refer to something other than room 1
Mechanism X brought the old key back to Krauss's pocket.
The hallways are really narrow and Natsuhi can lock and unlock the door just by keeping part of her body inside the parlor

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)04:58:31
>> No. 12216 edit
File 137259393789.png - (278.69KB , 503x480 , leo_v15.png )
12216
>>12215
... How disappointing.
The rooms cannot move around. The rooms refer to the room themselves, and never did they change location.

No part of the room was removed or destroyed.

No mechanism were used for the whole game to create closed rooms or to murder apart from Genji's

Rooms names only refer to a single room.


I don't even... what ? No

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)05:15:10
>> No. 12217 edit
File 137259520438.jpg - (17.84KB , 122x215 , why.jpg )
12217
The culprit wielded the windows while shut, ergo making them locked from the outside to escape after locking the door with Krauss's key.. Do you think you can define "locked" for this game?

His corpse was chopped in half by the axe, his legs, along with the old roman numeral 1 key inside his pants are outside of the room.

Natsuhi tied a string around her key and gave it to the culprit. Therefore, it was in her possession the entire time and never handed it over, and/or she just let the culprit borrow it! Alternatively, the key was broken in such a way where Natsuhi was able to keep possession of her key the entire time while the culprit had the other piece with the ability to lock the door. It may have been fixed or recombined by the time she left to check Krauss. This may apply to Krauss's key as well, only a piece of Krauss's key was found, while the culprit had some sort of other piece that had the ability to lock the door. These can also be considered a method of locking the door for Rudolf too.



>There exist no person that have the same name as another on the island.
People be all havin' fun and doing some name swapping "Let's get over our massive trauma from our butler dying by doing some therapy! You're Jessica, and now you're Natsuhi. Therefore we do not have the same name at the same time, and so since I'm now Jessica with Natsuhi's key, I can leave."
...
...
Yeah, let me just ask this one last hint then:

Battler squitcher, When you were in the parlor on the second day, did you notice anything weiird? Specifically from Natsuhi? Or the conversations that were going on? Anything?

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)02:13:38
>> No. 12218 edit
File 137259651681.png - (249.82KB , 400x400 , ALL GLORY TO THE BEAM.png )
12218
My thoughts are spinning around the same things so I can't add something new for now. I'd rather check the old reds.
Also, I wonder if the time when Rudolf got killed can be considered as the same time when the door was locked behind him.

There was something that is irrelevant now.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)05:51:16
>> No. 12219 edit
File 137263415378.jpg - (27.11KB , 220x270 , so I was there.jpg )
12219
>>12113
>The 13 people alive at the time were present inside the room at the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

Wait... huh? If Genji and Krauss are very much dead, doesn't that leave 12 people alive? So unless Genji went to check on Kinzo and he's still alive, Natsuhi's twin with a different last name exists as they switch off keys, Ange, or a mysterious person X entered Room 1 where everyone has to acknowledge their presence I'm going to call logic error.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)17:05:51
>> No. 12223 edit
File 131449069483.png - (119.60KB , 352x480 , but_odorokia3.png )
12223
>>12217
Battler appears, solemn and quiet.

"Well, after what happened, we children didn't find much to do, nor did we know what we should do. Kanon and Shannon looked lost as well, so nothing really happened for a while.
When Natsuhi arrived, I just noticed that her left cheek was red and swollen. She didn't try to start any conversation either, simply sat and looked out the window with that sad look on her face.
After that... I remember her looking weird when Kyrie arrived. She came up to her and told her something I couldn't hear, but Kyrie just shook her head in disapproval.
She then went back to sitting and looking out the window.
As for Kyrie, well she seemed composed as she always is and I think her presence eased up the mood for us all, and we started talking as if nothing had happened.
That is all I can remember."
>> No. 12224 edit
File 136338112010.png - (252.77KB , 384x480 , leo_16.png )
12224
>>12217
It is impossible to lock the window from the outside.

I'm afraid not. Locked has no different meaning here than in any other game.

The corpse was found intact except for the wound in the head.

This wouldn't be considered in her possession.

Krauss's key was found whole and stayed that way for the whole game. Natsuhi's key stayed whole too.

No one swapped their names with anyone.


>>12219
welp, another logic error. I meant 12 people.
I apparently can't count. Sorry again for that.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)04:03:59
>> No. 12227 edit
Well, here's most of the reds so far, I'm doing this since I was requested to, and it'll help both the players and the lurkers who feel lost with so much red and blue to keep track of. There may be some missing though.

General Red

Kanon and Shannon are not the same person.

The safe contained the infamous ten tons of gold of Kinzo, Genji was aware of this, knew how to access the secret basement and how to open the safe. Had he wanted money, he could have very well stole it.

The numbered keys can only open their own room. No numbered key can open another bedroom than their own.

When the group entered the secret basement, the safe was already open. Hideyoshi did turn the key, however nothing happened.

The term you're looking for is ventriloquism. No one on the island is able to do such a thing.

The only ways to enter room 01 is by the door or the several windows.

No material were brought or existed on the island that could fake someone's death or create a fake corpse real enough that no one would notice it.

There is only one person to bear the name Krauss.

No lock on the island was picked on.

Any numbered/old key can perfectly open the dining room, among others.

it's impossible to lock something by slamming or kicking it.

The doors can only be locked while they are closed.

No autolock exists on any door in the whole guesthouse.

The number of keys never changed during the whole game

No secret passage except the one to the secret basement ever existed during the whole course of the game.

No hole existed at any point either.

It is possible to close the window from the outside, however it can only be locked from the inside

No such mechanism were brought or existed on the island

It is impossible to axe someone through the keyhole.

No hole were dug inside the guesthouse.

No doors or walls were removed.

The ceiling did not budge.

What Maria saw was the entrance to the Secret passage.

Jessica and Natsuhi's hand were never cut off from their respective bodies.

There exist no person that have the same name as another on the island.

No revolving walls exist.

Everyone was handed the correct keys.

The clock's time is correct and was never tampered with at any moment.

The only keys on the island are the three master keys, the 4 numbered keys, the 7 regular keys, the storehouse key and Genji's briefcase key. No other key ever existed at any point on the island.

The keys that open the safe are the 4 numbered keys.

The rooms cannot move around. The rooms refer to the room themselves, and never did they change location.

No mechanism were used for the whole game to create closed rooms or to murder apart from Genji's

Rooms names only refer to a single room.

Krauss's key was found whole and stayed that way for the whole game. Natsuhi's key stayed whole too.

No one swapped their names with anyone.


First Paradox

The string wasn't used to slide the key under the door

The key wasn't slid into the room

The shelf fell after the window had been shut and locked.

The window was not closed and locked by a human hand, but by a mechanism

That is mostly correct. There was no weight however, Genji's head acted as the weight, and the string was not broken by a gunshot, but by the shelf falling over.

The door of the storehouse cannot be locked from the inside, be it with a key or without.

The culprit never handed the key to someone else. Nor was it handed to him.

The key couldn't have returned in his pocket simply by throwing it from the window, and the string was not used that way.

The key was already in Genji's pocket before the group entered and discovered his body.

The window was unlocked from the start.

Genji did enter from the window with the key still inside of his pocket.

Genji did not lock the door.

The culprit never entered the room via the window.

Correct. The storehouse was locked from the start, Genji entered by the window and set everything up, then the culprit shot him.

Genji wasn't aware that objects were missing when he took the key.
On the schedule, no preparations were to be made before 3:00 AM, yet Genji took the key around 0:30 AM.

Genji never considered the possibility of objects being missing in the storehouse.

Genji was not aware he was going to die.

Genji believed he would use the key to enter the storehouse when he took it.

Genji's getting old, sure, but be it an hurry or not, he would have still found the key if it were in his pocket.

Genji would never give in to physical threat.

Genji did not have any knowledge about weaponry apart from tools like the axe or knives that could be used as murder weapons, and that much almost everyone knew or could have guessed.

Genji never retrieved any of the objects found later on the crime scenes

Genji was instructed to do so. However, he would have never obeyed such an order under normal conditions.

No "heir authority" was used to make Genji comply.

Genji is a man of honor

The only will Genji ever followed was Kinzo's, him being tied up and his death were not part of it.

No such material exists.

Genji did not go to the storehouse on a bet.

Genji's death was caused on purpose.

Two keys were found on Genji's body : The storehouse key and his own master key, that Kanon took.

Genji was not in love with anyone !

The storehouse door was perfectly functional.

Genji didn't think he'd be rescued by anyone in particular. He just didn't expect to be killed, and honor had nothing to do with that.

The culprit never threatened to kill any family member that night.

Genji's motive is not related to money.

The culprit didn't threaten to hurt any family member either.

The culprit didn't threaten to kill the servants.

The culprit didn't have multiple personalities.

Genji was very much dead when he was found on the morning of the second day.

When Genji handed the keys to everyone not a word of his concerning what they were and what they opened was false.


Second Paradox

Krauss was not killed after the closed room had been broken

When Kanon went to see Krauss, he only knocked and left as Krauss started shouting to be left alone.

Kanon did not mistake what he heard, what Krauss said was perfectly intelligible.

Well the keys that can open the room are all clear right ? : The numbered key, the two small keys given to Natsuhi and Jessica and the master keys. No more key exist that can open this door

No recorders were brought on the island by anybody.

Krauss was not dying when he told Kanon to go away.

When the corpse was discovered, no one was hiding in room 01

Krauss was alive when Kanon knocked on the door at 10:20 a.m.

Kanon's master key was not used to lock or open the door during this murder.

Krauss was already dead when Natsuhi left the parlor.

No master key was used to lock that door.

No string trick was used to get the key back in Krauss's room.

Natsuhi and Jessica's never handed their regular keys, never lost and were never stolen of it before the corpse was discovered.

The 12 people alive at the time were present inside the room at the discovery of Krauss's corpse. And everyone acknowledged the presence of those 12 persons alive plus Krauss's corpse.

The key found inside Krauss's pocket was marked with the number I in roman numbers, it is unmistakable and none other like it exist.

The corpse I am referring to is Krauss's corpse.

The key was already there when Natsuhi entered.

Krauss died instantly.

Jessica's key was not used to lock or open that door from the point Jessica got into the parlor with the others up to the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

After Natsuhi got into the parlor, she never left it until she went to check up on Krauss

Krauss's death was a homicide

Rosa was successful in getting Maria to come with her, Jessica is then included in the "three children".

Jessica did not leave the parlor after 10:20 AM until Krauss's corpse was found.

When Natsuhi left to notify her husband, the door was locked.

Krauss died of a severe case of axe to the face.

No trap was used to kill Krauss

The key was already in Krauss's pocket when Natsuhi left the parlor.

The window was never broken

The door can only be locked/unlocked from the inside or by a key

No string trick was used to lock the door.

The culprit was inside of the room when Krauss died.

Jessica was in the parlor before 10:20 AM.

Krauss was killed in room 01.

The windows were already closed and locked when Natsuhi opened the door.

From 8:00 AM, when Jessica entered the parlor to 11:30 AM, the discovery of Krauss's corpse, Jessica's key was not used to open or lock the door to room 01.

No living person was inside of the room at the time Natsuhi opened the door.

Natsuhi opening the door and the discovery of Krauss's corpse are considered the same event.

Krauss only died once.

The lock was not removed.

No other corpses than Krauss's were inside the room when Natsuhi opened the door.

The door was locked with a key.

Krauss's pocket refers to the pocket of his pants, and no article of clothing of his was missing

Everyone entered room 01 upon discovery.

Apart from when the door and the windows, there exist no space big enough for anyone to enter in the room.

From the moment they were given their key by Genji until the discovery of Krauss's corpse, Jessica and Natsuhi's key never left their possession.

The key was inside the pocket of the pants that his corpse is wearing

No hole big enough to let the key go through exists either.

Natsuhi only went to check up on Krauss once.

Natsuhi's key never left her possession from 9h15 until the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

The culprit had left by the time Natsuhi got out of the parlor.

No part of the room was removed or destroyed.

It is impossible to lock the window from the outside.

The corpse was found intact except for the wound in the head.


Third Paradox : SOLVED

The culprit never moved Eva's body after she died.

The three master keys were put on a table in the servant's room by Kanon and Shannon before they went to sleep that night, they found it at the same place next morning.

Eva was not bound nor gagged.

Eva did not expect anyone to save her.

The fire extinguisher was there to begin with.

The servant's room was locked at the time of the 3rd murder.

Nor Kanon nor Shannon gave any of their keys before Natsuhi took them the next day.

Kanon and Shannon never stepped inside the kitchen after their supposed hour of sleep until they woke up the next day.

The only other corpses existing on the island at that time were Genji's and Krauss's. And both were in the storehouse when this one was discovered.

The fire extinguisher is working perfectly.

Her life was her priority.

The window of the kitchen is too small for someone adult-sized ( Everyone except Maria ) to enter or exit the room.

Eva died from immolation. The fire extinguisher was in plain view for her when she was set on fire.

No trace of fire was found in the room beside Eva. Basically even though half of the kitchen was burnt, it's only concentrated around Eva's corpse.

The fire extinguisher was perfectly reachable.

Correct, the culprit set Eva on fire from the outside.

The culprit was not holding the fire extinguisher, in fact Eva could access it easily.

Eva was never told or instructed anything about the fire extinguisher.

Eva was not in such pain she could not use it.

Eva did not attack the culprit with the fire extinguisher

Since when were you under the impression that Eva did not reach the fire extinguisher ?
Because she did, she even managed to take it and was holding it.

Eva was holding the fire extinguisher while she was on fire.

Eva did not lose consciousness.

The fire extinguisher contained gas.

The culprit did not lit on fire the room itself.

The fire was started by the culprit.

The wielding torch was not used to light Eva on fire.


Fourth Paradox

Rudolf is very much dead.

Rudolf died within 20 seconds after he had been given the final blow, however he did not lock or close anything.

Rudolf was the one to set the chain.

Rudolf was killed through the opening formed by the chain lock.

Rosa had the three master keys, but the master keys were not used to lock room 1.
Natsuhi and Jessica had the numbered key and both their regular keys but they never out of sight from the group. And they were never seen opening that door until Rudolf's corpse was discovered.

They both woke up upon hearing Shannon's scream, and they didn't found any corpse upon waking up.

They were never seen locking the door either.

Rudolf was alive when they entered the kitchen.

Due to how the group was, there was nothing they could do covertly

Rudolf was not stabbed before they entered the kitchen.

A key was used to lock the door.

The scene in the kitchen was genuine for at least 5 out of the 6 persons.

Natsuhi and Jessica's key never left their respective persons.


Fifth Paradox

Had a chair been placed to block the door, they would have found it when entering, however all the chair in the room were in order and far away from the door.

They'd have found the culprit inside of the room had he done such a thing.

Natsuhi did not lie.

That key did not change hands since Natsuhi picked up.

Same thing as the chair or the culprit blocking the door, they'd have found the key afterward.

The lock was not busted by the culprit.

>> No. 12229 edit
File 137268620359.png - (83.29KB , 372x469 , ros_ikarib3g.png )
12229
Krauss heard something from outside the window. He opened it to check and saw a cute little bunny. The bunny hoped up onto the window sill, and with an axe in its mouth and axed Krauss in the face before hoping out. As Krauss was dying his arm bumped the window and closed and locked it.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)06:45:30
>> No. 12230 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
12230
>>12229
Heh.
The window was not closed nor locked by Krauss.
>> No. 12231 edit
File 137268689946.jpg - (312.47KB , 650x880 , 79286.jpg )
12231
Request the following.

"When Krauss entered the room the windows were closed and locked."

"When Natsuhi left the room before heading to the parlor the windows were closed and locked."

"Natsuhi did not touch the window locks."

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)07:08:22
>> No. 12232 edit
File 137268791356.png - (314.15KB , 603x480 , leo_b5.png )
12232
>>12231
When it's asked so nicely... There you go.
When Krauss entered the room the windows were opened and unlocked.

When Natsuhi left the room before heading to the parlor the windows were closed and locked.

Natsuhi did touch the window locks.

>> No. 12233 edit
File 137268817619.png - (49.63KB , 169x161 , avatar1.png )
12233
>>12232
"From the time Natsuhi left the room to go to the parlor up until the discovery of the Krauss' corpse the windows were never unlocked."
>> No. 12234 edit
File 13726883209.png - (317.83KB , 603x480 , leo_b6.png )
12234
>>12233
Heh. I refuse to. I will not say why either.
>> No. 12235 edit
File 137268866478.jpg - (50.44KB , 268x335 , tin_man.jpg )
12235
>>12234
Navy "The culprit was inside the room when Natsuhi just before left."

Request to speak to Natsuhi.

"Natsuhi-san, I know this might be tough, but can you please tell me exactly what condition the room was in when you entered and found your husband's body. Specifically the windows, please give me as much detail about them as you can."
>> No. 12236 edit
File 137268902581.png - (132.37KB , 334x357 , avatar2.png )
12236
>>12235
Request "When Natsuhi found the door was locked, the windows were also closed and locked."

Request definition of 'inside' as in "The windows can only be locked from the inside." Request added statement. "The windows can only be locked by a person who is currently fully inside the room in question."
>> No. 12237 edit
File 131232693884.png - (118.71KB , 441x480 , nat_nayamua3.png )
12237
Natsuhi reappears, still fidgeting.

"The room ? Well compared to when I left there were few differences... Apart from the blood and... The windows were perfectly normal, locked and closed as I had left them when I left the room some hours earlier. As for the rest... The bed nearest to my husband... was Jessica's, I noticed the bed was undone and messy unlike how I had left it, it was also covered with blood. Other than that, nothing had changed."
>> No. 12238 edit
File 137269000613.png - (318.03KB , 603x480 , leo_b10.png )
12238
>>12235
The culprit was not inside of the room when Natsuhi left.

>>12236
I think I had already talked about this one, but whatever. When Natsuhi found the door was locked, the windows were also closed and locked.

Inside as in The windows can only be locked from the part of the window where the latch is located. It being located facing the interior of the room, effectively means that it can only be locked from within.

The windows can only be locked by a person who is currently fully inside the room in question.


Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)07:49:26
>> No. 12239 edit
File 137269240353.png - (29.93KB , 103x154 , beato_owl2.png )
12239
>>12238
And another. "The door to Krauss' room was last locked from the inside."
>> No. 12241 edit
File 137269469866.png - (317.90KB , 603x480 , leo_b8.png )
12241
>>12239
How tiring... I refuse.
>> No. 12246 edit
File 137270953127.jpg - (43.94KB , 420x565 , wordplay etc.jpg )
12246
So Natsuhi never left the parlor in the timeframe...
...she never handed her key over
but you never confirmed that the key did not leave the parlor...
...only that it stayed in her possession.

So how does one stay in possession of something, but it leaves the room while you're not?
>Jessica and Natsuhi's key never left their possession.
Can you define "possession" for this game?

Uh, maybe Natsuhi's key never left her possession because she indirectly gave the key to someone she trusts. She indirectly gave the key to Jessica, and since she's in the same family to order it never left her "possession".
>The key was already there when Natsuhi entered.
A different key was in Krauss's pocket when Natsuhi entered. The roman numbered key was found when everyone came inside.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)13:13:04
>> No. 12247 edit
File 137080352021.png - (278.40KB , 503x480 , leo_v4.png )
12247
>>12246
Sorry to disappoint you, but The key never left the parlor either.

I doubt you still need that definition now ?

And just what key would that be then ? I did say that the number of keys has not changed, and specified all the existing keys right ?
Well, I'm sure you'll try something anyway, so I'll cut it short. I was referring to the roman numbered key.
>> No. 12248 edit
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12248
Krauss was forced to kill himself. According to definitions of law this would fall under a homicide.
>> No. 12249 edit
File 136338668537.png - (252.93KB , 384x480 , leo_1.png )
12249
>>12248
Heh, good one, though were it true, it wouldn't solve anything, since I already said that the culprit was inside of the room when Krauss died. But whatever. The culprit was the one to wield the axe into Krauss's face.
>> No. 12252 edit
File 13727137649.jpg - (88.54KB , 347x364 , halp.jpg )
12252
Natsuhi only went to check up on Krauss once.

She only left go to check once, yeah. But she killed Krauss left the room and closed the door and then reopened it again and screamed pretending to have just found a corpse.
>> No. 12253 edit
File 137271383810.png - (37.96KB , 324x246 , malk.png )
12253
Natsuhi locked the door with her key before she left. The culprit unlocked the door with a master key and killed Krauss. The culprit locked the door with something other than a key.

In other words, Krauss's door was locked more than once.

>> No. 12254 edit
File 136362809645.png - (252.11KB , 384x480 , leo_14a.png )
12254
>>12252
You guys won't give up with that eh ?
After she left the parlor to check up on Krauss, Natsuhi only opened the door once.

>>12253
Whether or not it was locked more than once, before the discovery of the corpse, the door was last locked by a key.
>> No. 12255 edit
File 137271480462.jpg - (35.75KB , 640x480 , sadaharu_punch.jpg )
12255
The culprit was let in by Krauss, they killed him and then locked the door. They opened the window and then tied the bedsheet to the latch, and then george of the jungle swung out the window letting go just right so the window locked and the bedsheet stayed in the room.
>> No. 12256 edit
File 137271720890.png - (59.31KB , 200x287 , ange smile.png )
12256
Just covering all the bases:
The window can be locked while open and when the culprit was standing inside. The culprit then left and shut the window, thereby making them locked. Or autolocked windows. You only said that for the doors.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)15:23:44
>> No. 12257 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
12257
>>12255
The culprit did not use any of the windows to leave.

>>12256
The window can only be locked while closed.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)15:29:44
>> No. 12258 edit
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12258
The door's hinges were adjusted so the culprit could still leave the room.
>> No. 12260 edit
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12260
>>12258
Nor the door nor its hinges were tampered with.
>> No. 12262 edit
new thread
>>12261
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