>>11770
Giving me the first move, huh? Okay then, let's start with this. I'm surprised Camphor-san didn't try this one, actually.

The staff member is the culprit. When he arrived to deliver the tacos, he stabbed the victim and then left the room!

The staff member who brought the tacos is innocent. Tacos aren't meant to harm others.

When Erika found the magic circle, the door wasn't locked. The culprit used a different method to block the door without locking it.

>>11773
When Erika found the door with the magic circle on it, it was most definitely locked.

The culprit was hidden inside the room when the staff member arrived! He left the room after the staff member left, which is why nobody was found in the room during the formal investigation of the scene!

The culprit wasn't hidden inside of the room when the staff member arrived.

Very well, how about this? Erika is the culprit!

>>11775
And how does that explain anything? The VIP room key was found inside the room, and none of the servants ever parted with their master keys. How does Erika being the culprit make this closed room any more possible?

The culprit could escape through the window while it was locked! For example, there was a hole in the window that he could escape through!

Very easy. One of the servants is an accomplice. The accomplice locked the door from the outside of the room.

A human can't leave the room through the window while it's closed.

>>11777
Hm...That was well worded. I suppose I'll have to give away this piece. None of the servants are accomplices.

Either the door or the window can be both open and locked at the same time.

Well worded? For a Mexican, maybe. One of the persons who hold a servant key isn't considered a servant.

Oh, and Neither the door or the window can be open and locked at the same time.

>>11779
The five master keys are in possession of Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa and Gohda. All five of them are considered servants.

The victim died in an accident! He accidentally impaled himself on his own knife or something!

But of course, the victim was murdered.

And well, what about Yasu? Yasu isn't considered a servant, yet she holds Kanon and Shannon's keys.

>>11781
Haha, really? The five master keys were in the exclusive possession of the servants for the entire game. Therefore, by definition, a person who is not a servant cannot have possession of a master key.

There is another exit to the room aside from the door and window. For example, a secret trap door. The culprit left through this third exit.

No secret exits were found during the investigation.

I sense some wordplay in there...
The last time the door was locked it wasn't by a conventional method. A conventional method is defined by locking it manually from the inside or from the outside using a key.

>>11783
Indeed, just as planned. Being vague about the wording is causing you to continue on a completely fruitless line of inquiry, just as I thought you would. But I wonder if you'll take even this statement as a way of trying to divert you from this particular part? *giggle*.

By your definition, the last time the door was locked, it was locked by a conventional method.

Just because the exits weren't found doesn't mean they weren't there!

Well, you got a point. No secret third entrance exists in the room.

About the vagueness, well, that's how this works. Just before the body was discovered, one of the windows wasn't locked.

>>11785
Uhm, I did it again.
Just before the body was discovered, one of the windows wasn't locked.

>>11786
Just before the body was discovered, all of the windows were locked.

No secret third exit exists now, but it did at one time. After it was used by the culprit, the exit was closed off and rendered unusable, so that it no longer exists at the present time.

A closed or rendered useless secret entrance would have been noticed during the investigation. It wasn't.

Hmm...
Another key capable of locking the door existed at some time.

>>11788
The only keys that have ever existed which are capable of locking the VIP room from the outside are the VIP room key and the five master keys.

At the time that the staff member arrived at the scene, the victim was faking his death. After the staff member left the scene, the culprit arrived and killed the victim for real.

By the time the staff member arrived, the victim was already dead.

Very well, let's get dangerous. Let's see if you can deny this:
Not being forced, or motivated by any other reason, a servant locked the door from the outside!

>>11790
......The last time the door was locked from the outside, it was locked by a servant. However, this occurred long before Krauss's murder.

The victim's key was inserted into the room through a hole in the window! You never denied the existence of a hole in the window, only that a human could escape through it!

Be careful with the time.
The key wasn't inserted through a hole in the window.

The culprit used a mechanism to lock either the door or one of the windows when he was already out of the room!

>>11792
Nn, yeah, sorry about that. I think it was still within the time when I hit the post button, but...yeah, I cut that one really close.

...Oh? I already said that the door was last locked by a conventional method. I will now add that the same applies to the windows, where "a conventional method" refers to being manually locked from the inside.

The culprit was not hidden inside the room when the staff member arrived, but an accomplice was! This accomplice was the one to lock the room from the inside!

Last edited at 13/06/02(Sun)14:16

Yeah, don't worry about it.
No accomplice was hiding inside when the staff member arrived to the room.

A string or some other mechanism would still count as "conventional" as long they are inside of the room.

>>11794
A "conventional method" of locking a window can only refer to a human locking said window manually from the inside while that human is positioned completely inside the room.

The culprit was not hidden inside the room when the staff member arrived, but he was in plain sight. He threatened to kill the staff member if he revealed his presence, therefore the staff member lied about there being nobody in the room when he discovered the victim!

A clever trick eh? But nope: No accomplice was inside of the room when the staff member arrived.

Krauss wasn't murdered inside of that room. His corpse got inside of the room through a different entrance beside the door or one of the windows.

>>11797
No entrances or exits to the VIP room exist aside from the door and the windows.

...Huh? You didn't deny it! I said that the culprit was inside the room, not an accomplice!

My bad, I read that wrongly. When the staff member arrived to the room, no living person was inside of it.

Then deny this, A person got inside of the VIP room through one of the windows.

>>11799
I don't need to deny that blue truth, since even if it was true, it wouldn't break the mystery. If someone did enter through a window, how did they then leave the room? After all, nobody except Erika, Genji, Kanon and Natsuhi were inside the room at the time that the body was discovered.

A secret entrance did not exist. However, a secret exit did. In other words, a way through which the room could be left, but not entered, such as a hole in the floor!

No secret exit was used for the culprit to leave the room.

The culprit was hidden and dead inside of the room.

>>11801
by the culprit to leave the room*

>>11801
Aside from Krauss's corpse, no other corpses were inside the room at the time of the body's discovery.

An exit existed that was not "secret"! The investigator would have noticed it if he hadn't been so tired that he couldn't be bothered doing a proper search!

That kind of wordplay would be too mean, the culprit didn't leave the room through a non secret third exit

Krauss locked himself the door before dying!

>>11804
Krauss did not lock the door from the inside.

The culprit and accomplice both entered the room after the victim let them in. The culprit stabbed the victim and then left. The accomplice then locked the door from the inside and escaped through a secret exit. In this way, a secret exit was still used even though the culprit did not leave through it.

I think I'm being a little too mean with my blue, but geez you can't blame me after what happened in the first round.
No accomplice left the room through a secret exit.

Your definition of possession allows for a key to be in hands of two persons at the same time, being only one of them a servant.

>>11806
with my red

>>11806
That's fine. After all, leaving no small loophole unchecked is an extremely important part of this game.

I suppose at this point that I should just say outright that none of the master keys were used to lock the door from the outside after Krauss's murder.

Going back to a red statement from your previous duel, "The door or the window weren't repaired by the culprit at any time." The door or window were repaired by an accomplice, or even someone who had nothing to do with the culprit!!

Neither the door or the window was repaired in some way during the game.

Krauss's corpse was inserted into the room through one of the windows. Then it was simply locked from the outside.

>>11809
Locked from the outside!? Did I not already say that the windows were last locked by a "conventional method", which is defined as being locked manually from the inside by a human who is completely inside the room?

The door was not repaired, it was damaged all along! It didn't count as an exit since a human couldn't get through it, but the victim's key could have been inserted through a hole in the door!

The key found inside of the victim's pockets wasn't inserted through a hole in the door.

...then Krauss was nice enough to lock the window before dying.

>>11811
Krauss did not lock any of the windows from the inside.

The door was locked from the inside by a mechanism, a string, or some other method besides being locked directly by a human!

The door wasn't last locked by a mechanism besides being directly locked by a human.

I'm lost now. A window frame was removed or replaced.

>>11813
No window frame was removed or replaced.

...Couldn't you have just said that the door was directly locked by a human? Hm...There exists a way of locking the door from the inside directly without actually being inside the room. For example, you still haven't denied that a hole in the door exists. The culprit could have reached through the hole in the door and locked the room from the inside while still being outside!

Fair enough. The door was locked the last time directly by a human. No tricks here.

Seriously, your trick is good. Krauss wasn't murdered.

>>11815
You'll probably be disappointed, it's pretty silly really. At any rate, as I already said, Krauss died due to a direct physical assault from the culprit. Whether they intended to murder him doesn't really matter.

Also, technically that red doesn't deny the previous blue, if one assumes that reaching through the hole to lock the door counts as locking the door directly. But if that was the answer, you'd have confirmed it, so never mind.

Hm, getting desperate now...The room that the investigator searched is a different room to the one that the staff member arrived at.

Heh, I'm on the verge of giving up you know.
The room where the staff member found the victim and the room the investigator checked is the very same.

How about this? Krauss's murderer isn't human.

>>11817
Haha, don't worry, I'm on the verge of giving up too. This is a really close game, I never expected it to last this long.

The culprit is human.

...I hate to do this, but...An accomplice left through an exit aside from the door and window, which was not considered "secret", such as an obviously apparent hole in the door.

No accomplice left through a non-secret third exit.

Krauss's corpse was inserted into the room through a secret entrance...

>>11819
You already tried that one, remember? No entrances or exits to the VIP room exist aside from the door and the windows.

Umm...wait, ah, someone who wasn't the culprit or an accomplice left through a non-secret exit!

If someone helped the culprit to create a closed room then that person would become an accomplice.

...I forgot about this: The VIP key was used to lock the room from the outside. It was inserted into the room from the outside after locking the door.

>>11821
That one would work, wouldn't it? Unfortunately not. While the door is locked, it is impossible for any object to enter the room through it.

...I'll keep going with this line of thinking. Someone who wasn't a culprit or an accomplice entered the room with the culprit. The culprit stabbed the victim. The culprit left. The third person did not intend to help the culprit in any way, but he locked the door out of fear that the culprit would come back for him. The staff member found him in there when he discovered the scene, and agreed not to tell anyone that he was in there because it would make it look like he was the culprit.

That's a very specific blue, so I'm sorry about blocking it in such a rude way. Nothing of the sort happened.

The VIP key got inside of the room through a aperture small enough not to be considered an entrance or an exit.

>>11823
Yeah, I realised after I posted that that you already said that there was nobody inside the room when the staff member arrived anyway.

The definition of an entrance/exit is a passage that allows objects to enter/exit the room. Anything that allows an object to enter or exit the room is by definition an entrance or exit.

...There was a person who was neither the culprit nor an accomplice inside the room when the staff member arrived, and this person had also been killed by the culprit. After the culprit left, the second victim locked the door to protect himself from further assault, before dying. The second victim's corpse was later removed from the room after the staff member discovered both corpses. The staff member didn't mention the second body because he would be put under suspicion for moving the corpse, due to him having possession of the only key that could lock the room.

I wouldn't be able to think in something as complex as that. No second victim exist

Very well this is my last blue, and it's a pretty bad one. The VIP key was placed into the room until the group found Krauss's corpse.

>>11825
...Huh? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that one. Maybe you mean "wasn't" instead of "was"? If so, the VIP room key was inside the room at the time that the door with the magic circle was discovered.

That's your last blue, you say? I was just about to give up too, honestly. I can't really think of anything besides silly things like the door being closed and open simultaneously. I'm sure I'm overcomplicating things at this point but I really can't seem to get it. I think I'll give you the win for this one, you've put a lot of thought into it so you deserve it really. I'll give the solution in the next post.

>>11826
Hold on just got here, let me pass judgment before you post any answers. Since some people are debating in chat etc.

Last edited at 13/06/02(Sun)16:04

Appropriate theme for the occasion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-jQhNAjVU

>>11827
Hm, really? Well, I've already resigned, so I don't mind forfeiting the win here. I was the first not to be able to post a blue statement, after all. But if there's something you want to decide, then I won't stop you.

I think I'm going to leave anyway, it's past midnight over here and I'm kind of exhausted. I'll check back here tomorrow and post the solution then, assuming that everything is concluded.

Good game Anon, I really enjoyed it! Nipa~

Last edited at 13/06/02(Sun)16:12

Well, would have been simple if it was a problem with red, but since both blues have been denied as you have prepared for it seems this is a stalemate. You both made 25 blues and each made reds to deny each others.

I think if either of you want to throw in the towel that is fine. It seems Rika already has volunteered so if that is what you wish then I won't stop you.

Originally I planned to give up as well, but that would mean having no final round, no fun etc. I will continue to the last round, if Ozaki accepts it, but I'm not posting another blue for this one.

The game was great Rika, I was very sure of some of my blues but you skillfully blocked them or deceived me. Really, being older here doesn't really helps me solving other's mysteries.

>>11831
That was pretty much what I was intending, yeah. The core trick behind it isn't really anything speial, but I hoped that setting up all that stuff with the keys around it would distract people from the actual answer. Evidently it worked pretty well~

The solution:

Kinzo's study is located directly above the VIP room. Due to an unfortunate accident before the family conference, a hole was made in the floor of Kinzo's study which goes through the ceiling of the VIP room.

This is why Krauss forbade the VIP room to be entered without his explicit permission, because he was afraid one of the siblings would enter and notice the hole which would allow them to see into Kinzo's study, breaking the illusion of his death.

That night, Eva sneaked into Kinzo's study through the window in an attempt to expose his death. Krauss noticed her sneaking around, and in a panic, he entered Kinzo's study himself to try and get her out. She had already entered, and a struggle ensued. During said struggle, Eva pushed Krauss into the hole, causing him to fall into the VIP room. He died due to blunt force trauma from the fall.

To try and cover up the murder, Eva decided to make it look like a witch had done it by drawing the magic circle on the door. To further create the sense that it was impossible for a human, she located the VIP room key and threw that into the hole in the floor of Kinzo's study. She then sealed up the hole so that nobody would know it had ever been there.

...So yeah, it was a little farfetched. The trick here was that my red statement that no entrances or exits exist aside from the door and window only applies to the present time. Beforehand, another entrance did exist, but that entrance was sealed and therefore no longer existed by the time the body was discovered. I actually wondered if I'd given this away by using this exact solution as one of my blue truths for your own mystery, but thankfully not.

>>11833
No, not at all. Actually by using it yourself you deceived me into thinking the possibility wouldn't be worth trying. My only complaint would be that I can't find any hint or obscure clue in the paragraph, but I guess we never stated they should be there. Oh well, CRB are mind games, indeed. Great game.