On the Morning of October 5th, 1986

Gohda had finally finished preparing breakfast for the Ushiromiya family. However, much to his dismay, the children were nowhere to be found at the table. Genji decided to check on them, and so he went to the cousin's room in the guesthouse.

What he found was a terrible sight. Behind the serving cart with cups of juice was Maria, lying dead in the center of the room, her eyes clawed out. Blood was everywhere.

Jessica and Battler were lying dead on separate couches. There was vomit all over the floor near them, mixed in with the playing cards they had been using that night.

In the bathroom, George had fallen into the bathtub. In addition to the blood and vomit was the corpse of Shannon, who had collapsed near George's corpse. Kanon was still missing, nowhere to be found.

The adults were all concerned about the children. The moment he returned to the dining hall, they had asked him what he found in the guesthouse.

Genji: “…I am sorry to say this… but it seems the four cousins, as well as Shannon, are dead.”

Eva: “George is dead?! What do you mean?! What happened?!”

Genji: “I am not sure. However, I do know that the room was covered in blood… No, I shouldn’t be telling you this much…”

Eva: “Blood?! Why would there be blood in the guesthouse?! We have to go there right now!”

Hideyoshi: “Calm down, Eva! If we rush into things, we’d just be runnin’ into the killer’s trap! ”

Eva: “…You’re right, dear. Anyone who suggests staying together can’t be a killer.Because the killer would want us to split up…!”

Natsuhi: “Then what about Jessica? Does that mean Jessica is dead too?!”

Krauss: “…If Jessica is dead, then… I’m sorry. Perhaps we’re all fighting over nothing…”

Natsuhi: “N-nothing?! We have everything to fight for! As long as I live, I will not allow the two of us to surrender the inheritance! ”

Rosa: “Maria… I’m sorry…”

Rudolf: “… Battler……”

Kyrie: “Wait a minute. Where is Kanon?”

Gohda: “Kanon was assigned the night shift in the guesthouse. Shouldn’t he have been there? Genji, did you see him there?”

Genji: “No, I did not see Kanon in the guesthouse. He could be anywhere.”

Eva: “So Kanon killed them! It’s obvious, isn’t it?!”

Hideyoshi: “Ya can’t just go accusin’ people like that! But it is suspicious…”

Kyrie: “Yes, it is very suspicious. If Kanon is still out there, and we do nothing, then more innocent people will be killed.”

Rudolf: “That’s a scary thought… What should we do?”

Kumasawa: “Y-yes, very scary… Perhaps we should take shelter in Kinzo’s study?”

Rosa: “Good idea. The auto-lock on the door will keep us safe, right?”

Genji: “Yes. It may also be a wise decision to inform the Master about this…”

Krauss: “That’s right… Isn’t Nanjo there as well? Let’s check on them.”

The group moves to Kinzo’s study, on the third floor. Genji uses his key to enter.

Nanjo: “Oh, you all surprised me! Is breakfast already over?”

Eva: “Unfortunately, yes. …Where is Father?”

Nanjo: “Hmm? Kinzo left this room an hour or two ago. I’m not sure where he went.”

Krauss: “Oh, Father. What kind of insane walk is he going on today of all days?!”

Eva: “That’s exactly what I am wondering, too. Nanjo, how long have you been here?”

Nanjo: “I have stayed in this room since 11:00 PM last night. Kinzo was here as well, and we played chess together.”

Eva: “You’re sure, huh? I placed a receipt in the door last night at 12:00, in a location no one but I could find. Natsuhi, you saw the door, right?”

Natsuhi: “Yes… And the receipt was still intact… So that means…”

Nanjo: “W-well, Kinzo didn’t use the door…”

Krauss: “That is correct. There are only two exits in this room. Father sometimes prefers to leave out the window.”

Rudolf: “I wouldn’t put it past him. He enjoys going out in the rain, right? I heard it’ll be raining outside constantly all day today.”

Nanjo: “Anyway, why is everyone here…?”

Kyrie: “The four cousins are dead. And Shannon is dead too.”

Gohda: “Kanon is nowhere to be found… And we fear that he may have killed them.”

Kumasawa: “So I suggested we stick together until the storm passes.”

Eva; “I’ve searched out the whole room. It seems there is no one in this room we are unaware of.”

Nanjo: “I see… We would be safe, but what about the other key to the study?”

Krauss: “If Kanon finds that key, then we are all as good as dead.”

Kyrie: “Doesn’t Father have a gun collection? We might be safer if we had those.”

Genji: “Of course. These four guns belong to Kinzo. Please inspect them, as there is one defective gun among the four.”

Rudolf: “Ah, yeah, it looks good! This gun will work just fine! ”

Eva: “Indeed. My gun works perfectly as well.”

Natsuhi: “Hmm… How can I tell if this gun is any good?”

Krauss: “If Rosa’s gun does not work properly, then your gun will.”

Rosa: “My gun doesn’t work. So it seems Natsuhi’s gun must not be defective.”

At this point in time, only Rudolf, Eva, and Natsuhi carry guns.

After three hours of doing nothing, a large explosion is heard coming from downstairs.

Hideyoshi: “W-what was that?! Was it Kanon?!”

Gohda: “It sounded like the boiler exploded…”

Genji: “Indeed. I will go check on it.”

Kumasawa: “Splitting up is death! Don’t leave, Genji!”

Eva: “…Death means nothing to me right now. I will go.”

Natsuhi: “…I will not let Eva go alone. It is too dangerous!”

Eva and Natsuhi both leave the room.

A short time later, another explosion is heard. All of the survivors leave the study to investigate what happened. There, they find the dead bodies of Eva and Natsuhi, still holding their guns. Inside the furnace of the boiler they also find a scorched body beyond recognition. Near the body is a burnt-up key to the study.

Nanjo: “…Both Natsuhi and Eva are dead. It appears that they both died from gunshot wounds. I am sorry…”

Kyrie: “And what about the charred corpse in the boiler? Does it belong to Kinzo?”

Genji: “I suspect it does. After all, only Kinzo has six toes.”

Gohda: “And anyone can see that this body has six toes.”

Kyrie: “So if Kanon killed Eva and Natsuhi, then Kanon also killed Father.”

Rudolf : “Or in reverse, if Kanon killed Father, then Kanon also killed Eva and Natsuhi.”

Krauss: “That damn servant! No, their killer can’t be Kanon!”

Genji: “This may come as a shock, but …Kanon does not exist.”

Kumasawa: “Indeed. There are only four servants on duty this weekend.”

Hideyoshi: “Eva and I thought as much! Maybe she was also right, that Father was already dead!”

Krauss: “Now is not the time for that! Our wives are dead, too!”

Kyrie: “Neither of you would kill your wives. So I can already eliminate two people.”

Gohda: “Perhaps we should change the subject…”

Rosa: “Right. This crime appears to be impossible.”

Genji: “The door to the boiler room was locked when we first arrived.”

Gohda: “I had to use my master key to unlock the door.”

Rudolf: “Isn’t there another door to the boiler room?”

Krauss: “The boiler room only has two doors, which are its only means of entry and exit.”

Hideyoshi: “But one of ‘em leads outside, to the courtyard, right?”

Genji: “Yes… And the courtyard has multiple doors leading back into the mansion, none of which can be locked.”

Rosa: “Isn’t it simple? The culprit used one of the courtyard’s doors to enter the boiler room.”

Rudolf: “Such an attack would surprise both of them…”

Hideyoshi: “But they both had guns!”

Kyrie: “That’s right. And everyone here has a solid alibi.”

Kumasawa: “But even with an alibi, a person can still commit murder…”

Kyrie: “All of us survivors were together in the study the whole time.”

Krauss: “Then, is it some unknown person…?”

Kyrie: “If the culprit is some unknown person, then I must be a liar.”

Rudolf: “If the culprit isn’t some unknown person, then Kyrie is not a liar.”

Rosa: “On the subject of liars… Can we really trust the servants? Each servant has one master key.”

Gohda: “Uwaaah!! I didn’t kill anyone! Here, you can take my master key…!”

Genji: “That will not be necessary, Gohda. Don’t you remember the rules?

Kumasawa: “Ohoho… Master keys must remain on the body of their owner, a servant, at all times.”

Nanjo: “Then, if the culprit used the locked door, the culprit must be a servant.”

Kyrie: “If the culprit did not use the locked door, then the culprit is not a servant.”

Nanjo: “And I myself am not considered a servant…!”

Rosa: “How can we tell which door was used?”

Kyrie: “Such a thing is unnecessary. I already know the answer.”

Rudolf: “What do you mean? You aren’t gonna pin this on me like you do at home, right?”

Kumasawa: “Don’t worry, Rudolf. We all know that you aren’t the culprit.”

Hideyoshi: “Kyrie, I see…! There isn’t anything odd about our clothing!”

Kyrie: “And from there, it all follows. I’ve solved it.”

Who killed Eva and Natsuhi?

"I will give this a shot. I've thought about it for quite a while and my theory is that Kanon killed the cousins while Kyrie killed Eva or Natsuhi with Genji's help to kill the other."

>>10899
I should have been more specific, but yes, Kanon is the culprit for the first twilight. That was pretty much given if you read Fan-EP4, though.

The hard part is the second twilight. Can you elaborate on your reasoning, which led to Kyrie and Genji?

"Of course. Genji was covering up Kanon's existance, therefore he was able to lie. If Kyrie was able to say that everyone was in the study during the murders, then the murders couldn't have happened. Kanon couldn't have killed them because Krauss stated Kanon did not.

>>10902
>Genji was covering up Kanon's existance, therefore he was able to lie.
Technically Genji didn't lie if you get into the details of Yasu's personalities. That kind of evidence isn't very strong in the first place though.

>If Kyrie was able to say that everyone was in the study during the murders, then the murders couldn't have happened.
That's rather short-sighted. There are plenty of ways to commit murder without leaving the room -- Kyrie isn't necessarily lying here.

>Kanon couldn't have killed them because Krauss stated Kanon did not.
Sure, but why are you assuming Krauss is telling the truth? He could just as easily be the culprit as Kyrie, right?

"Egh... I will have to dump out my theory of Genji being one of the culprits then... But my reasoning on Kyrie I'll defend! If Kyrie isn't lying and they killed them from outside the room, that disobeys the rule of having to kill with your own hands! Her statement of all survivors being in the guest room also proves this because Kanon is not in the guest room!

*Outside of spoken statements, there are no lies in the narration.

Clarification Request: Does this include spoken statements which are not in purple? If it does not, can non-culprits lie in non-purple spoken statements, and/or are statements by the culprit true if not in purple?

For instance, if Bob says "the sky is blue" but doesn't do so in purple, may we interpret this statement as true since it's not purple; or, is it a spoken statement and therefore subject to lie-or-truth status based on whether Bob is the culprit, but potentially untrue either way since it isn't in purple (Bob could be a non-culprit and simply misled about the color of the sky, e.g.)?

>>10908
For example, here is one theory. Rosa did it.

She lied about her gun not working. She had set up the explosion in the boiler room before the story and knew the door was locked. When Eva and Natsuhi were outside, she shoot them from the balcony. During the time that Gohda had to open the door, Rosa went to the other side and putted the corpses inside of the room. She also is really suspicious.

Some information:

1) There can be, at most, three culprits, but only two are relevant here because only two could be among the group that is making statements. LOGIC: There are only two bodies maximum (Eva, Natsuhi), but the FT killer could be the culprit for these killings. Two more people could be culprits since there are up to two more bodies, and a culprit must kill with their own hands. Thus each of two people could become a culprit by killing one of Eva or Natsuhi each.

2) If Eva and Natsuhi are in fact dead (remember, they may not be; Nanjo and Krauss could be liars), then they are not culprits, and all their statements are true. This would mean that Kumasawa cannot be a culprit, because she suggested splitting up (even if she was lying about it being death, she did suggest it). It also means Rudolf cannot be a culprit, because Kumasawa says he's not. If only Eva is dead, Rudolf and Kumasawa are still eliminated. If only Natsuhi is dead, it is possible for Eva to be a culprit and thus lying and so we can't assure ourselves of that anymore. LOGIC: A culprit cannot die, so if you die you're not a culprit. If you're not a culprit, what you say is truth. If what Eva says is true, Kumasawa is not a culprit. If what Kumasawa says is true, Rudolf is not a culprit.

3) Kyrie's statement "neither of you would kill your wives," even if true, only means that Krauss cannot kill Natsuhi and Hideyoshi cannot kill Eva. LOGIC: It is possible for the statement to still be true and Krauss/Hideyoshi to be culprits if Hideyoshi killed Natsuhi and/or Krauss killed Eva.

4) If Gohda is telling the truth, it is very likely that Genji is as well. If Genji is telling the truth, Shannon is dead and Kanon doesn't exist, so the culprit is probably among the group that has spoken. Additionally, if no servant is a culprit, then it's probably true that the culprit used the doors from the courtyard, which suggests Rosa may be telling the truth. LOGIC: Even if "Beatrice" remains alive, she is an unknown person.

5) Remember that while culprits may lie, culprits do not have to lie; I am fairly certain that whoever the culprit or culprits are, some of the things they are stating are true. For example even if Kyrie were a liar, it doesn't mean she couldn't have stated some things which are true. LOGIC: Common sense; "may" does not mean "must," and "possible" does not mean "required."

6) If Nanjo is lying, even if Eva and Natsuhi are dead, they may not have died of gunshot wounds. If Rudolf is not a culprit, this all but assures Nanjo is lying, as we're told the only guns being carried are held by Rudolf, Eva, and Natsuhi (although I suppose it's possible to take the fourth gun if it's not really defective and kill with it, but that makes Genji and Rosa culprits, which starts pushing past the possible limit). One of Eva or Natsuhi may also be a culprit, but it would require Nanjo and Krauss to also be culprits, so I suspect that wouldn't be the case because of the limit (and indeed, if one of Eva or Natsuhi is alive, the number of possible culprits decreases). LOGIC: If Rudolf isn't a culprit, he didn't kill with his gun, which means the only guns that could kill Eva or Natsuhi belong to the other person. If one killed the other, they are a culprit. If both killed each other, the rules are broken, because a culprit cannot die.

7) The culprit almost certainly is wet. This is what Kyrie and Hideyoshi were driving at (it doesn't matter if they're telling the truth, it's just the idea). This suggests the culprit went outside, which means they went through the courtyard, which means they probably weren't a servant if and only if the statements by Rudolf, Kyrie, and Nanjo are true. LOGIC: The only thing that really makes sense for Hideyoshi to mention their clothes for is whether they're wet. The only reason they'd be wet is if they were outside.

Curious about a logical issue here. Kyrie's statement "if the culprit is an unknown person, then I must be a liar" must be true if "I must be a liar" refers to the statement she's making in purple. That is, it's logically impossible for it to be false, because if an unknown person were the killer it would automatically mean Kyrie is a liar but is being truthful about the fact that she is a liar.

If it applies only generally, she could I guess still be "a liar" (thus, a culprit) but be telling the truth in this particular case. If the opposite case applies and it is a logical contradiction, it means Kyrie is assuredly not a culprit per Rudolf's opposite statement.

But I'm not sure if that's the intended logic behind that particular statement, since a culprit is not required to lie in every given case.

>>10910
Woah you are so right, there can be more than 1 killer. Haha, well if I dont try I will never improve. What do you think about my Rosa theory?

Actually wait.

It's possible for there to be up to three killers. I'd forgotten Kinzo. However, if Kinzo was killed (and thus, if there are three culprits), Hideyoshi must be one of them, as he says Kinzo was already dead.

Also, there could be an issue with both Kumasawa and Gohda being truthful. Gohda says Kanon was assigned to the night shift, but Kumasawa says only four servants are on duty for the weekend. So either one of Gohda, Kumasawa, Genji, or Shkanon isn't a servant, or Shannon wasn't on duty, or either Kumasawa or Gohda is lying. I suspect it's possible to show both are truthful though using Shkanonigans (Gohda could be right that Kanon was assigned and Shannon wasn't is the easiest interpretation; Genji could still be truthful about "Shannon is dead" assuming Shkanonigans).

>>10912
I don't really know at the moment, but if Rosa is a culprit she could be lying about any of the following:

1) Whether the auto-lock would keep them safe.
2) Whether her gun works (however, the narration says she isn't carrying one).
3) Whether Natsuhi's gun works.
4) Whether more master keys exist than one per servant.
5) Whether the culprit went in through the courtyard.

On the other hand, someone could be a culprit and tell the truth the whole time. It's not necessary that they ever lie.

*A culprit must carry out all murders directly, by their own hands.

Clarification Request: Does this necessitate person-to-person murder, such as through shooting, strangulation, stabbing, etc., even if it's done from a distance? Is a trap considered "direct," or are traps explicitly prohibited by the rules? In my mind a trap is not "direct," but I want to be sure.

Also, where were Eva and Natsuhi found? The narration only says their bodies are somewhere outside the study.

Sorry, one more. I'm not 100% sure on how the blue tag is supposed to work so I wanted to test it and also ask for one more clarification, although I don't know if I'll get it:

"The four cousins" is defined as a group inclusive of Battler, Jessica, Maria, and George. Both Genji and Kyrie are referring to these same four people when each uses the term.

Clarification request.

If someone ceases to exist, does that count as dying?

Sorry for not responding right away, it was getting rather late and I tend to sleep a lot.

Anyway, I'm both very surprised yet happy to see that this gameboard has been solved.

Solution:
Eva and Natsuhi both die, as stated in the narration. Thus, they cannot be the culprits, and they cannot lie.
Eva mentions that those who want to stay together cannot be the culprit.
Thus, Kumasawa is not the culprit, and does not lie.
Kumasawa says that Rudolf is not the culprit, and does not lie.
Rudolf says that if the culprit is not an unknown person, then Kyrie is not a liar.
By the game rules, that statement is true, thus Kyrie is not a liar.
Kyrie states that neither Hideyoshi nor Krauss can kill their wives.
Thus, Hideyoshi and Krauss tell the truth.
Krauss claims the killer cannot be Kanon.
Hideyoshi claims that there is nothing wrong with anyone’s clothing.
Thus, Rosa’s purple theory is incorrect, and therefore she is the culprit.

Mion wins. Good game!

>>10992
damn, I was waiting for the answers to renall's question before butting in. That sure was fast.
Well done Mion.

>>10992
Hold on a second!

"Krauss and Hideyoshi cannot kill their wives" does not logically lead to "Krauss and Hideyoshi are telling the truth." It merely means that Hideyoshi cannot kill Eva, and Krauss cannot kill Natsuhi.

Sadly I cannot think of an appropriate multiple-culprits troll theory at the moment that exploits this. Believe me, I tried framing the hell out of George for this.

>>11007
Yeah, maybe a poor choice of words on my part. Every word counts in these purple truth games.

There were also some complications with 'the culprit must kill directly' since I wasn't looking at the rules while making it, but it's close enough.

>>11010
Ahahahaha! I can posit a theory in which Rosa is innocent!

The culprits are Nanjo... and (optionally) Hideyoshi!

Let's examine Rosa's statements!

Rosa: "Good idea. The auto-lock on the door will keep us safe, right?"
True. No one was killed while in the study.

Rosa: "My gun doesn’t work. So it seems Natsuhi’s gun must not be defective."
True and irrelevant. The killings did not involve guns, so all statements about them can be true.

Rosa: "On the subject of liars… Can we really trust the servants? Each servant has one master key."
True and irrelevant. The killing did not require use of a key.

Rosa: "Isn’t it simple? The culprit used one of the courtyard’s doors to enter the boiler room."
True. See below.

If Rosa is not a liar, then her theory is that the culprit used one of the courtyard’s doors to enter the boiler room. And he did... but not at the time Rosa believes he did!

Nanjo either murdered Kinzo in the study and dumped his body into the courtyard or Kinzo was already dead and his body was dumped. He is lying that he remained in the room, as he climbed down from the window to burn Kinzo’s body and rig an explosive, entering through the courtyard doors! Thus, Rosa’s theory that "the culprit" entered the boiler room through the courtyard holds true! The rain factor insinuated by Kyrie is irrelevant, as Nanjo’s clothes had plenty of time to dry!

Nanjo then murdered Natsuhi and Eva while checking them. He did not have to enter the room ahead of time to kill them, as Gohda let him in! I am not explicitly required to explain why Eva and Natsuhi appeared to be dead! Either they were faking for Reason X or the explosive rigged up by Nanjo knocked them unconscious! It isn’t relevant!

Note that even if "the culprit used a locked door" holds for Nanjo’s entry to the boiler room after Gohda unlocked it, he can simply be lying about that and about his own servant status!

Although it is not necessary, for the "Kinzo was murdered" theory to be true, Hideyoshi must also be a culprit, as Hideyoshi posited that Kinzo was already dead. Hideyoshi cannot kill Eva, nor did he have any opportunity to. There are two ways around this! One is that Hideyoshi was actually the one who murdered Kinzo! The other is far more diabolical!

Hideyoshi murdered Shannon! Before you invoke the "culprit cannot die" rule, remember that you said Kanon was the First Twilight culprit! Consequently, Kanon is a culprit but Shannon is innocent. When Kanon went dormant, he ceased to exist, but ceasing to exist is different from dying. Shannon, being innocent, can die if Hideyoshi kills her, thus making Hideyoshi a culprit!

With this, I can even construct a whydunnit. It’s perfect!

Hideyoshi and Nanjo were tired of being marginalized for their obesity! They conspired to make everyone pay! First, they gave Shkanon an eating disorder, which was easy with his/her already bizarre self-image problems! Shkanon became obsessed with the fatness of the cousins, and devised a vomit-inducing poison to make them become thinner... DEAD thinner! Kanon is the one who envisioned and executed the plan; Shannon was innocent. Because she was innocent, she could be killed by Hideyoshi, who wanted to cover up the loose ends! Nanjo then murdered Eva and Natsuhi, the thin little jerks! And then they pinned the whole thing on that waif Rosa! Hahahahahah! Fools! You let the fatties get away with everything!

>>11033

>>11044
I see that my prodigious intellect has left you flabbergasted.

>>11033

>>10992
>>11003
Thanks!!!!!! Well I just said the most logical thing I had in mind.

Oh man Renall invested so much energy on this case, I think he just forgot to write a theory.
But really that was nice to read, I learned how to analyse every aspect of the logic. Thanks