>>10427
The latch could be opened even when it was set. Therefore, the culprit could enter the study through the window! Tomitake noticed the fault with the latch while sneaking around the courtyard on the first day. Then he killed Rudolf and left through the door, which automatically locked behind him! As for Kinzo, his alcohol was poisoned! Anyone could have sneaked into the study at some point and poisoned one of Kinzo's wine bottles. There's nothing strange about it!

>>10428
You would have required a ladder to get to the third floor study window from outside. No such ladder exists.

The alcohol Kinzo drank was not tampered with.

>>10429
But you can't repeat the part about needing a laddder in red, right? The culprit got up there by other means, such as a rope!

>>10430
The window is not involved in the howdunnit in this set of murders.

>>10431
"I see, so that's only for how they got Kinzo's corpse out of the study later, is it?"

Then Rudolf or Kinzo let the culprit into the study.

>>10432
Neither Rudolf nor Kinzo let the culprit into the study.

>>10429
Clarification please, does "tampered with" apply to Kinzo's action on the flask or the bottles as much as someone else ?

>>10433
Kinzo died of natural causes

>>10434
The absinthe that Kinzo drank was just absinthe (prepared or not). There was nothing in it that would surprise an absinthe drinker (adding sugar and water is typical, etc). Furthermore
he prepared the drink himself and no tampering occurred before or after that.

Kinzo was murdered.

>>10437
I guess that rules out suicide entirely then.

Kinzo's flask, not the alcool, was poisoned, which meant that as soon that he'd put his lips over the flask to drink, he'd be unknowingly swallowing poison.

>>10438
The flask was not poisoned.

>>10439

I'm not particularly interested in the way he did managed to get inside since I have dozen of theories about it, but I should probably get on to it regardless.

The culprit stole Kinzo or Genji's key.

Supposing Rudolf was granted access to the study by Kinzo, the culprit profited of the moment Rudolf entered to enter as well.

The door was blocked by some object, not allowing the auto-lock to activate.

The culprit lock picked the door.

Considering Kinzo's murder, I'm supposing that "murdering" means willingly causing one's death :

The culprit forced Kinzo to drink 'till he died. After all, absinthe is a pretty fucking strong alcohol.

Which is not unlike what Nanjo said.

Otherwise,

The culprit caused Kinzo to have a heart attack by startling him or something

I doubt someone such as Kinzo would die this way, but you never know.

>>10440
Hmmm, the culprit did not possess Kinzo or Genji's key to the study at any time during the game.

The culprit did not sneak in whilst someone else was being let in.

The door was not blocked open.

The door was not lock-picked.

True, Kinzo died from the alcohol in his system, but he knew his limits and would not accidentally drink too much alcohol.

>>10441
>would not accidentally drink too much alcohol.
I think you misread what I said.

>>10440
The culprit forced Kinzo to drink 'till he died.

>>10442
Ah, right. Kinzo was not forced to drink alcohol.

>>10433
Heh, this blue should have naturally came right after that answer.
Then, someone other than Rudolf or Kinzo let the culprit inside the study, that person could have been let in by KInzo or Rudolf, or by one of the ways I described in this post.
>>10440
Just replace culprit by a third party.

>>10441
Kinzo wasn't in his normal state and could have drank himself to death

>>10448
The culprit got into the room by his own means, this means that no one aided him in his entering.

But Kinzo was murdered. This means it was not an accident such as drinking himself to death.

>>10449
Repeat this in red :
"The only means of entry to the 3rd floor study are the front door and the window."
and
"The only way to open the door of the study from the outside is by possessing either Genji or Kinzo's key."

>>10449
If the culprit willingly caused Kinzo's state which led him to drink himself to death, it can be considered as murder

>>10450
The only means of entry to the 3rd floor study are the front door and the window. Furthermore, the only keys Kinzo had made to his study were the one he possessed and the one Genji possessed.

Kinzo did not die from drinking too much alcohol. This is not a logic error.

>>10451
A third key of the study, not made by Kinzo, exists.

As for the drink, I think I get it.
The culprit managed to make Kinzo absorb/swallow a chemical or some similar stuff that, when it would enter in contact with absinthe or alcool in general, it would kill him.

>>10452
Correct, A third key of the study, not made by Kinzo, exists.

But that doesn't mean I've lost yet! The only poisonous substance in Kinzo's body is alcohol. Kinzo died from alcohol poisoning but not from drinking it. Clearly magic was used to turn his innards into alcohol.

>>10453
I guess that does explain how Kinzo's body disappeared and the last murders. S much for me saying this place was the safest eh.

I'm kinda lost at the last red. Do you mean to say that while Kinzo drank an amount of alcohol insufficient to kill him, more alcohol appeared in his body, but not by his will, and killed him ?

>>10454
Sure, he drank alcohol, but not enough to kill him. Yet he died from too much alcohol. Clearly I used magic.

>>10455
Heh, don't count on me to give up so easily.

After he drank his absinthe, Kinzo tried to drink a non-alcoholic beverage from his flask, but the culprit had filled the flask with alcohol without Kinzo knowing.

If it ain't the flask, just replace it with a bottle, a glass or whatever.

>>10456
The last dose of alcohol, the one which killed him, was not consumed, intentionally or otherwise, by Kinzo. That is, he did not drink or eat the last dose(s) of alcohol.

>>10457
Then, a needle ! The culprit injected alcohol directly into Kinzo's veins using a needle

>>10458
Correct. Had you made an additional search of Kinzo's corpse particularly questioning the toes (since his socks were off), you would have found where he was injected: in between the 5th and 6th toe.

The culprit sneaked into the room and killed Kinzo in his sleep. Rudolf was outside the room when the culprit attempted to leave, so the culprit lured Rudolf into the room and killed him. Add a little mess to add to the idea of a huge fight, and we have ourselves a closed room.
______________________________________

Manifestation #2
Steel is my body, and fire is my blood.
Two women dead in the downstairs furnace room.

>>10459
This one seems pretty straightforward :
Eva and Rosa both went out of their room, I'm guessing they were called by the culprit, then, the culprit killed them/knocked them unconscious and finally put the bodies in the boiler and turned it on.

As for how he got out of the room, I'm gonna steal Erika and Eccaia's theory :
The culprit set the latch on the backdoor, then placed the wooden board against the door so that it would block the door when he would close it, so that he'd be outside and the door would be blocked

>>10460
That method of delayed blocking of the door was not used.

>>10461
Okay repeat this in red :
The only means of exit and entry of this room are the backdoor and the front door.
It is impossible to set the latch of the backdoor from the outside.

And, well just to be sure :
Eva and Rosa were murdered by someone else.

>>10469
I refuse, I will not give a reason why.
It is impossible to set the latch of the backdoor from the outside.
Eva and Rosa were murdered by someone else.

>>10470
Ahah ! I should definitely set the bases clear before I start throwing blues around, it's much more convenient~

Then, this seems obvious !
No matter how you look at it, a third exit exists ! The culprit used a third exit after having set the latch and blocked the door to get out.
This third exit could be anything, but I'd personally bet on the vent, though in the realm of silly possibilities, the furnace itself could hide some kind of escape, or simply a secret passage exists.
Well, in any case, a third exit definitely was used by the culprit !

So, what do you think of this, darling ?

>>10471
"That is correct. The massive vent was used as a third exit.
Naturally you would have had to turn off the furnace first and wait for it to cool down before doing so."

From behind you a different man appears. This time it is one you recognize well.

"Alright then enough of his closed rooms. This time it's mine you will have to face."

I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to death, nor known to life.
The destroyed servant, deceased detective and the vanishing corpse.

You can start on whichever one you want.

>>10473
Oh, I'd kind of stopped checking this place since it was down for a while. But it's quite fitting that Squitcher-san should fight that other man while I fight my rival, isn't it?

After leaving with Genji, you went to the servant's room and replaced the kitchen key with a different key to make it look like the kitchen key hadn't been used. You then locked the servant's room with Genji' master key, and got into Kinzo's study using the faulty window latch to remove Kinzo's corpse. Then, you took it to the kitchen, where you proceeded to dress it in your own clothes and stab it to the point where it was unrecognisable. Afterwards, you placed Genji's master key in the room, left the room, locked it with the kitchen key, and both went hiding somewhere. Genji was the one who later dressed up as the man in red and murdered the survivors.

>>10474
Heh, I guess I should let you handle that one, I stole too much of the spotlight already.
Call me if you have any trouble, I'll be running at your rescue like a prince in shining armor~

>>10474
Well I already knew you had the answer to that one.
Correct. The window was used to remove Kinzo's corpse from the study. I bent the latch while inside the room investigating the first deaths.

However the rest of your theory is no good, no good at all.
You found the one and only kitchen key inside the locked servant's room.

>>10477
Wow, did you actually just say that? Thanks for the offer, although I don't swing that way.

>>10478
Then what about the other keys? Perhaps the master key we found inside the room wasn't Genji's, or one of the other servants' master keys was replaced with a fake at some point.

Also, can you confirm that all the doors and windows to the kitchen and the servant's room cannot be locked from the outside without the specified key? And that there are only five master keys?

>>10479
Sure.
During the course of this game there have been no fake master keys.

There is only 5 master keys.

The key you found in the room was Genji's master key.

It is impossible to lock the entrances/exits of the kitchen and servant room from the outside without the use of a key.

>>10481
Just to be sure, can you confirm that the door to the kitchen can only be opened by a master key or the kitchen key, and that the door to the servant's room can only be opened by a master key?

>>10482
Opened or locked, that is.

>>10482
The doors to the kitchen can only be locked and opened from the outside by a master key or the kitchen key.
The door to the servant room can only be locked and opened from the outside via master key.

>>10487
The kitchen key was left outside the servant's room. While we were investigating the kitchen, one of the servants slipped away, put the kitchen key in the servant's room and locked the door with their master key.

Or there is an exit in the kitchen or the servant's room which we were not aware of, and therefore wasn't locked after the culprit or an accomplice escaped through it. Or there is a secret area in one of the rooms where the culprit or an accomplice was hiding.

From when all the groups converged in the boiler room to when you all entered the servant room the only people who separated from that group was Jiro and Genji.
The people in the group at that time was; George, Jessica, Battler, Natsuhi, Krauss, Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Maria, Kanon, Shannon, Gohda, Kumasawa, Squitcher, Rika-Beatrice, Eccaia.
There are no hidden areas or passages in the kitchen or servant room.

>>10489
Did you forget Nanjo? Anyway...

A window could have been locked from the inside while still remaining open, and then closed from outside. The same applies to a door.

The doors and windows to both rooms can o nly be locked while they are shut and closed.

>>10491
The culprit or an accomplice was hidden underneath, or behind, some of the boxes in the cold storage, in a part that we didn't check. This doesn't count as a "hidden area" since we could have found them if we'd inspected it more thoroughly. This person, whether alive or dead, locked the doors in the kitchen from the inside, breaking the closed room.

Alternative theory: One of the servants quickly put the kitchen key inside the servant's room immediately after we entered and before we found it.

>>10492
If anyone was underneath or behind the boxes the detectives and npc's would have instantly noticed them.

It seems you keep trying that accomplice theory so I'll get that out of the way.

Ozaki does not have an accomplice.

>>10493
There exists a small gap in the wall or door or window or floor of one of the rooms, which does not count as a hidden passage because a human could not enter or exit through it. The key was passed through this gap from the outside after being used to lock the door.

>>10494
For this game hidden passages refers to; any unknown opening that allows entry of an object into the room from the outside regardless of whether the doors and windows are locked and or closed.

>>10495
Ozaki hid in some other area in one of the rooms that we didn't fully investigate, but wasn't classed as a "hidden area"! Inside a cabinet, inside the oven, under a table, behind the cooler, and so on!

>>10496
Ah right, you guys didn't investigate everything. No matter I'll deny that for you too.

The only area you didn't investigate that a human could have hidden in was the oven or cabinets; If you had searched either you would have found them to be empty.

>>10498
There are no hidden passages by the time we reached the scene, but there were at an earlier time! Ozaki blocked off the hidden passage after using it either to escape himself or to get a key into the room! For example, he could have made a gap in the wall and then repaired it, or broken a window and then repaired it, and so on!

>>10499
There has never been any hidden passages in the kitchen or servant room during the course of this game.

>>10500
Regarding the definition of a hidden passage, what is the definition of an 'unknown opening'? Are you able to define it as 'any opening besides the windows and doors'?

>>10523
Yes. An unknown opening would be any passage undiscovered by the detectives.

The only openings and exits into the kitchen are the two doors and the windows.

>>10524
At some point, Ozaki stole a master key from one of the servants other than Genji! Then he put the master key on the floor outside the servant's room after using it to lock the kitchen. The servant saw it, assumed they had dropped it themselves, and inconspicuously picked it up. That's how they were able to hand over their master key later!

>>10525
When ozaki and Genji left the boiler room the rest of the servants each had their own master keys. From then to when they handed over their keys to the detectives they never separated with them.

Seems like you're having some troubles here, should I join ?

>>10544
I might have to call on you soon, but I really want to get this one by myself if at all possible.

I still have a few moves left to try before I can give up. Just trying to organise my thoughts and examine each red statement carefully at the moment.

>>10545
Alright, I'll wait then and simply cheer you on. Good luck.

Searching both the oven and the cabinets would have led to us finding Ozaki! If we had searched either one, we would have found it empty, but not if we had searched both!

The body in the room is not dead! It really was Ozaki and he really was still alive! He locked the door from the inside and then played dead using the blood from the pork and a lot of shallow wounds that looked deeper than they really were! Or his clothes had special slots through which a knife could slip without causing him damage, like a magician's dismembering trick!

Or the body in the room is neither Ozaki nor Kinzo, it was Genji! Genji was stabbed repeatedly by Ozaki, then Ozaki left the room and Genji locked the door from inside before dying! Or Genji committed suicide after locking the door, for some reason that didn't involve being Ozaki's accomplice!

Ozaki is secretly classified as a servant, and one of the other servants is not! That way there are still only five master keys and Ozaki can still have used a master key to lock the door! That's why Kinzo invited him to the island, because he was actually some kind of elite personal assassin or something! Or maybe it's not Ozaki, but the man in red who is a servant, and Ozaki used his master key! That would explain why the man in red had a secret extra key to Kinzo's study!

Doors and/or windows can be opened and/or passed through while they are locked!!

Or the craziest of all: this closed room was set up before the groups converged in the boiler room! Ozaki separated from his group while the four of us were split up, and set up the closed room at that time! Therefore he could have taken a master key from one of the servants and returned it at some point without violating the previous red statement!

Can you say the line you stated earlier, 'An unknown opening refers to any passage undiscovered by the detectives' in red? By the way, you have defined a hidden passage as an unknown opening, but then defined an unknown opening as a passage, which makes for a circular definition. Can you confirm specifically that an 'opening' or 'passage' refers to anything that allows entry of an object into a room, regardless of whether it is a door, a window, a hole, a gap, a trapdoor, etc?

>>10547
If you had searched both the cabinet and the oven you would have yielded the same results.
The body you found in the room was dead. The knifes clearly stabbed into the body and would have killed any human.
This is a homicide. Genji did not lock any window or door from the inside. The body was in fact Genji dressed up in Ozaki’s clothing.
The only servants in this game are Gohda, Kanon, Shannon, Kumasawa, Genji. Ozaki is not a servant.
When the doors and windows are shut and closed there is no way into or out of the room for a human.
The closed room was set up after the convergence in the boiler room.
An unknown opening refers to any passage undiscovered by the detectives.
Opening and passage both refer to any opening large enough to fit a key into the room. Excluding when one of the doors or windows is opened none of these exist.

>>10548
Do those reds about the doors and windows apply to both the kitchen and the servant room?

>>10549
Yes they apply to the servant room as well.

>>10547

>>10550
Ozaki was hiding in the cabinets or the oven initially, but then stealthily left the room while everyone was distracted by the body. Therefore if we had checked the cabinets or oven after that, we would have found them empty, but that does not mean that nobody was ever inside them.

During the course of this game nobody ever hid inside the cabinets or the oven.

>>10561
Ozaki was not hiding in the cabinets or oven; he was just standing very near the door, pressed against the wall so that nobody would notice him unless they happened to look in that direction. Then, as everyone rushed towards the body, Ozaki quickly sneaked out through the door.

In short, it would be appreciated if you could deny that someone was inside the room at the time that we unlocked the door, if possible.

>>10562
I would think the close to a dozen people entering the small room would be enough assurance.

Ozaki was not hiding behind the door as anyone would have noticed if someone was standing there.

>>10563
But you're still not quite denying it, are you?

Are you unable to say that "immediately before we unlocked the door, no living human was inside the kitchen?" And the same for the servant's room?

You all investigated the rooms didn't you? I also confirmed the only hiding spots and denied them. Which applies to the servant room too.

I find it rather implausible that someone is hiding in the room. Unless they were inside the body or something silly like that.

>>10565
I just find it a little suspicious that you keep shying away from saying it outright, but fair enough. I'll proceed under the assumption that nobody is hiding.

I'll have to do some brainstorming before I can come up with any more theories, though.

In fighting there is such a thing as "pressing the issue." When your opponent is on the defensive, especially when you have them on the run, you need to take the advantage and push forward. It seems like Ozaki, here, might barely be avoiding defeat. A graze here, a glancing blow there, you need to utilize this advantage. If he's dancing around the issue, not giving you a straight answer, it might be because he can't give you a straight answer.

>>10567
Ha. I think I've got it.

You did indeed hide somewhere in the kitchen, and then leave while we were distracted by the body.

But it doesn't matter whether that location was a place that we had checked before or not.

Because obviously, by the time we had investigated, you had already left.

You hid in a location that we did investigate.

And that location is...

The walk-in cooler!!!

>>10568
>>10569
You blue flies across the room and impales the man in the stomach. Blood splutters from his mouth and stains the floor; however, he does not go down...

So you are saying I hid in the walk-in cooler and then left while you were all checking the body?

The other entrances/exits were locked at that time were they not? Unless you mean to say I walked through the crowd of people by the main door.

>>10571
I don't think that's impossible, considering that everyone would have been so distracted by the body that they'd be forgiven for missing someone slip past. Especially since you could have been wearing anything at that time; perhaps you wore a servant's uniform or something so that you'd be mistaken for one of the group at a glance.

Either way, I don't feel the need to come up with anything else unless you can actually deny that you did leave through the main door.

>>10572
...Fine, I concede.

Ozaki was hiding in the walk-in cooler. For reasons unknown you couldn't find him.

Alright then, on to the next death.

>>10573
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet those hands will never hold anything
George's death.

Take 'er away.

>>10574
Ozaki was standing outside the room with the Winchester rifle, waiting for someone to leave. As soon as George left the room, he shot him and then quickly ran away.

>>10575
That is correct.

George was simple shot by the waiting assailant at the end of the hall.

No mystery there really. Lets move on again shall we?

>>10576
So, as I pray, UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS

The mysterious man in red found in front of the portrait.

I'm back baby ! Good job you did there Erika, now, it's my time to shine once again !

The body was either Kinzo or Genji's body disguised as another person.

>>10578
Correct.
The body was Kinzo's.

The rest of the mysteries I will leave for Rudolf to answer to.

So then, what is it that happened in the study while you were all gone? How did they die? Who did it and when? Finally, what is going to happen to you all now?

>>10581
Well, it's pretty simple, isn't it ?

A culprit, different from Ozaki, entered the study using the 3rd key in his possession and killed everyone in it. Afterwards, either he vanished, or if he was among the known persons, he killed himself or faked his death to make it look like everyone had been killed by someone else.

About what's going to happen from there... We're gonna kick that bastards in the face after having found out who he was, and then we're gonna live happily ever after with the Rokkenjima gold, also Ozaki kills himself out of depression later on.

>>10582
Ozaki does not have an accomplice.

>>10583
Why does it have to be an accomplice? Can't it be someone else acting independently of Ozaki?

There is no evildoer on the island independent of Ozaki

>>10586
Well then, that basically confirms that Ozaki killed them, doesn't it?

Ozaki murdered everyone in the study after we left for the chapel.

Ozaki did not murder the people in the study after you left to go to the chapel.

>>10586
>>10588
Let's not start another argument about the definition of evil here, please.

>>10583
Well then Ozaki is an accomplice.Simple really.

If that is not so, I request the definition of accomplice and the definition and evildoer.

>>10590
That's right. I was an accomplice.

It only makes sense. After all I helped Rudolf to make this revamp.

>>10591
Eh ? I had this theory up since you first said that red, I just thought it was silly. Well, then the way you escaped the walk-in cooler is rather simple :
You simply disguised as the culprit, that way you managed to get away without anyone thinking weirdly of your presence

As for the actual culprit... Hmm... Let me think...

>>10592
Besides the Tomitake disguise I never used another one. If I had tried that in the cooler you would have instantly noticed me.

Anyway have fun solving the culprit.

>>10593
Wait, I will not let go of this so easily.

Because of the red, it seems like the accomplice fact is completely irrelevant.

I want you to confirm in red that the walk-in cooler is considered part of the kitchen, and as such that any general red about the kitchen also concerns the walk-in cooler, especially this one :

The only area you didn't investigate that a human could have hidden in was the oven or cabinets; If you had searched either you would have found them to be empty.

>>10594
Yeah I was worried you would think that. I guess it needs to be in red even with the map.

The cooler and the main room of the kitchen are both part of the kitchen. When I say kitchen I refer to the whole kitchen which includes the cooler and the main room.